L.E.D. Backlit T.V.

oldagetraveller

After researching and looking at various tvs in stores I purchased a Panasonic TX L37E30B lcd television online. Possibly because of viewing in stores with their bright lights I hadn't noticed any problems with "light bleed" onto the screen.
On this set I have now, when switching on to watch, I noticed there is light bleed at the bottom left and right corners over a fairly large area (bottom right is the worse) on a dark screen. More evident at night and not daylight.
I have read of this problem but would like to know if it's a feature of modern l.e.d. backlit televisions? I did read of this particular model suffering the phenomenon and that Panasonic had sorted it. This set has l.e.d. edge lighting too. If it's something that has to be "lived with" fair enough, but I find my eyes drawn to these patches now rather than the whole screen!
The set is being returned to supplier anyway because of a fault that it will not switch on from stand by all the time using the remote control.
I would have preferred Samsung but I don't like their newer mirror like screens! In this instance it most definitely is not a case of I've bought this but now wish I'd bought the other.
So is the panel faulty, poor quality build, normal with a characteristic or something rather not mentioned in the l.e.d. hype (the elephant in the room type thing)?

Wootball

It's normal in LCD screens, the poor picture uniformity is one of the reasons why I'd always recommend a plasma TV.

pitkin2020

Wootball wrote: »

It's normal in LCD screens, the poor picture uniformity is one of the reasons why I'd always recommend a plasma TV.

Plasmas are ok but you tend to get a lot screen burn with them and a lot glare off the screen.

With regards to the original I have a samsung LED tv and can't say i have noticed any bleed TBH. As for the mirror screen you mention I only notice that when the TV is off or the picture being displayed is black but its never really been a problem. I chose LED over plasma due to the nature of plasma being a very reflective screen and screen burn.

EDIT: just to add I can minimise that mirror effect by turning up the backlight so its becomes even less noticeable.

Wootball

pitkin2020 wrote: »

The OP has LED not LCD. Plasmas are ok but you tend to get a lot screen burn with them and a lot glare off the screen.

LED and LCD are the same thing. They're lit differently, but the screen is LCD. With regards to plasma, you're wrong. Modern models are extremely unlikely to get screen burn (image retention fading after a few seconds is not the same thing) and of course you get reflections off any glass object. Whereas with an LCD screen you get a white splodge when a direct light hits the screen rather than a true reflection.

People thinking that LED and LCD are different things is a big problem and isn't helped by sales staff that play on this - manufacturers are aware that people don't do their research and feel that they can charge more for an LED screen because customers think they're a new technology.

Please stop inferring that they are different, it's annoying.

See for me info: http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-led-lcd-tvs/1149434-led-televisions-information-about-fantastic-radically-new-technology.html

pitkin2020

Wootball wrote: »

LED and LCD are the same thing. They're lit differently, but the screen is LCD. With regards to plasma, you're wrong. Modern models are extremely unlikely to get screen burn (image retention fading after a few seconds is not the same thing) and of course you get reflections off any glass object. Whereas with an LCD screen you get a white splodge when a direct light hits the screen rather than a true reflection.

People thinking that LED and LCD are different things is a big problem and isn't helped by sales staff that play on this - manufacturers are aware that people don't do their research and feel that they can charge more for an LED screen because customers think they're a new technology.

I had edited my post before you replied, i didn't mean they were totally different but LED is very next generation compared with old LCD's. Even plasmas have come along but you won't pursuade me screen burn has been resolved. We only bought our new tv before xmas and comets had paused their stupid tv dispalys for around 20 mins. When searching through the menus of one plasma you could clearly see the currys logo that had been paused before, it was still there atleast 30 mins later when we went back.

Wootball

pitkin2020 wrote: »

I had edited my post before you replied, i didn't mean they were totally different but LED is very next generation compared with old LCD's. Even plasmas have come along but you won't pursuade me screen burn has been resolved. We only bought our new tv before xmas and comets had paused their stupid tv dispalys for around 20 mins. When searching through the menus of one plasma you could clearly see the currys logo that had been paused before, it was still there atleast 30 mins later when we went back.

30 minutes later isn't burn, it's IR. Burn is permanent, IR is due to phosphor aging and goes away with normal viewing. I'd put up with IR considering the plasma picture being indescribably better than an LCD picture. They're not for everyone, but the screen uniformity issues that plague LCD screens are not there in plasmas.

And no, LED lit screens are not 'very next generation'. They're the same screen with a different lightbulb behind it. Did you read the link I provided, which comes from the top A/V enthusiast and technical site in the country? It certainly doesn't seem as though you have, so I'll quote it here as your mouse button isn't working:

LED televisions as are being mis-named by some manufacturers and mis-sold by some retailers, are not radical new technology, do not necessarily look better than LCD televisions and should not necessarily command a higher price than non-LED LCD televisions.

This is simplified to keep it brief, but...

'LED televisions' as you might currently find in shops are only LCD televisions with LED backlighting or edgelighting. The LED back/edgelighting technology is somewhat more efficient and can look attractive. Edgelighting technology allows the TVs to be a bit thinner than normal LCD televisions.
Whether you decide to pay a premium price for 'LED televisions' is up to you, but for gawd's sake, don't pay more for one because you think it is fantastic, radically new, superior technology, because it certainly isn't.

Recently I had the misfortune of going into a few high street retailers and was appauled and shocked at the misinformation and blatent mis-selling of LED backlit TVs.

The picture is far superior than plasma and normal LCDs - This is not true but sadly viewing them in a showroom with strong lighting is not going to highlight some of the issues they have. Uniformity of light behind the screen, especially on edgelit models IS a concern and should be examined if you are looking at one.

It's a different and better technology - Nope, it's an LCD panel that uses edge or backlighting from LEDs. There is no documented gain in consistant image quality differences against a standard high quality LCD TV. Dimming and contrast issues are to be considered when looking at buying. This can also only be switched off in certain picture modes on some TVs, but not fully.

Watch the price tag - Most LCD LED backlit TVs are sold at a premium over normal high quality LCDs. Bare in mind that the price increase has nothing to do with picture quality as we have discussed above. Some normal and very reasonably price LCDs offer the same or better picture quality. You are paying for the new backlight that can make the TVs slimmer and they have a nice designer look. That is what you are paying for. It's up to you if that is worth the extra money.

Mis-leading sales patter - Be aware that you will be told many wonderful and great things about LED backlit LCD TVs and how they are the best thing since sliced bread. However, as discussed above you are not buying a new generation of TV technology or a new technology. Picture quality is not any better than an average high quality normal CCFL LCD TV. And some normal LCDs offer a better image in a slightly thicker panel box.

oldagetraveller

I wouldn't agree that it's normal for lcd panels in general. My older 32" Samsung with "normal" backlighting is perfect, no light bleed, torch effect or whatever the correct term is? It has a matt screen too!
So it would seem that these newer l.e.d (edge) lit models usually suffer from the effect by varying degrees?
I might just hang on a while until the manufacturers hopefully cure this. I don't want a plasma set because of their mass, glass screen and larger screen sizes, I've not yet found a 37" example.
It's also very difficult to determine whether a set is edge lit or backlit, manufacturers and others seem to mislead in their descriptions. A description will state l.e.d. backlit when it is actually edge lit! I would assume a proper backlit version could possibly be less prone to bleed from the edges?
I wonder if some buyers don't complain about this because they've just paid for the latest thing and would be embarrassed to say it's rubbish? I'm not embarrassed - l.e.d. edge lighting is rubbish.

ukcarper

I have a 1 year old Panasonic led edge lighting TV and I have no problems.

Wootball

Edge lighting can be described as backlit because it is still behind the panel. There are full backlit and edge backlit TVs but the large majority are edge lit because it's cheaper. If you want a full array LED TV be prepared to search across the country, and pay through the nose for it respectively. And yes, backlight bleed, clouding and uniformity are an issue in ALL LCD screens, not just the ones with LED lighting. Whether you personally can see it or not is the difference.

almillar

pitkin2020 - that's rubbish, or extremely out of date, advice you've been given about screen burn in plasmas. That screen burn (I'll bet it was just image retention, screen burn is permanent) was caused by the TVs being abused, and having a static image on them for hour upon hour (probably at insanely high brightness settings). The same thing would have happened on a CRT screen but when was the last time someone complained about screen burn on one of those? Also, if you've bought an LCD with a glossy screen, you've got exactly the same reflections as you would with a plasma. You sound like you get all your tech knowledge from the guy in Currys trying to sell you a TV.
Anyway, OP, yes, you're suffering from backlight bleed (understand that all LCD screens have a backlight, either a fluorescent tube or these new LEDs), the're ALWAYS behind the LCD screen, so the're always backlights. The model of TV you bought may be worse than others, or the actual set you had could have had the problem. You did the right thing by checking the picture on the TV before buying the TV, but as you say the conditions aren't the same at home and backlight bleed can be more obvious.
And of course, to fight off the sales pitches further, LED is NOT NECESSARILY better than 'old style' LCD screens.

pitkin2020

almillar wrote: »

pitkin2020 - that's rubbish, or extremely out of date, advice you've been given about screen burn in plasmas. That screen burn (I'll bet it was just image retention, screen burn is permanent) was caused by the TVs being abused, and having a static image on them for hour upon hour (probably at insanely high brightness settings). The same thing would have happened on a CRT screen but when was the last time someone complained about screen burn on one of those? Also, if you've bought an LCD with a glossy screen, you've got exactly the same reflections as you would with a plasma. You sound like you get all your tech knowledge from the guy in Currys trying to sell you a TV.
Anyway, OP, yes, you're suffering from backlight bleed (understand that all LCD screens have a backlight, either a fluorescent tube or these new LEDs), the're ALWAYS behind the LCD screen, so the're always backlights. The model of TV you bought may be worse than others, or the actual set you had could have had the problem. You did the right thing by checking the picture on the TV before buying the TV, but as you say the conditions aren't the same at home and backlight bleed can be more obvious.
And of course, to fight off the sales pitches further, LED is NOT NECESSARILY better than 'old style' LCD screens.

Cheers, for that. I don't recall ever saying the salesmen told be anything about screen burn?? You are quite correct though about it being retention I just used the incorrect terminology, send me to the gallows.

The screen we have now is glossy and doesn't have anywhere near the reflections the plasma we had which was sent back to be replaced by the LED. Screen retention as you so nicely put it is a problem on all TVs I am fully aware. I do have to say from my clearly inexperienced personal opinion that a few hours of TV with the E4 logo remained on the plasma for several hours after, yes it disappeared after that but it was still there for a long time. Our other LCD tv also suffers even worse from this. The samsung LED (our main TV) hasn't suffered from it that I have noticed to the same extent, but they are personal views.

As for taking advice from a member of staff in comets or curry's, are you having a ****ing laugh :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rofl: I wouldn't ask their advice when buying a kettle, and don't get me started on PC world staff. Its easier to find a golden goose egg than a knowledgeable member of staff.