I never got a PCN

sleepystar1975

Hi All

I wonder if anyone can help.

Back in November 2011, we were going to a family event, I had my Mum in the car with me - who is a blue badge user. As we were in a hurry, and my mini-me was being a moo, I parked my car in the disabled bay (in a council owned car park) I chucked the badge and clock on the dashboard, we all dashed out (well, Mum hobbled/staggered/limped) and got to our event, just in time.
When I got back to the car, I noticed that where I had thrown the badge and clock on the dashboard, the clock had partially obscured the blue badge - so that it did not show the full expiry date. But as there were no notices on my car, I thought nothing of it,, loaded mini-me in the car, gave Mum her badge and clock back, and set off on my merry way.


December came and went, and nothing so again, I thought nothing of it. Then we go away for New Year, and I come home to an NtO (Notice to owner) from the county council, indicating that I HAD been issued a PCN, and as I had ignored it, the discounted rate of fine is no longer offered, and I am to pay the full £70 by 19/1/2012 or face a bigger fine and/or the debt being registered to the county court.


While I do not dispute the fact that it was my responsibilty to have displayed Mums badges correctly, as this is the first notice I have recieved, I felt it unfair that I have to pay the full whack, so I phoned the "general enquiries" line, who confirmed that it would have been a sticky notice on my window, and that it is not unheard of that folk will peel off the stickies from the cars before the owner returns.
I phoned the council who run the car-park, who said they would most likely no longer have any of the CCTV from that date, and wouldn't check as it is not a major issue (but to me, paying £35 over paying £70 is a big issue:()


So, my question is....can I appeal against paying the £70 and still offer to pay the £35, as I do admit blame in not displaying the badges in the correct fashion, and I would have paid the £35 if I knew about it sooner?

Thanks all for reading

Coupon-mad

The answer to the question you asked is no, you are now appealing against £70 as the opportunity (LOL!) to pay the discounted penalty has gone by the NTO stage. Seems a bit unfair but...

...if you'd just asked 'do you think I will win on appeal?' then my answer is yes you 'should' do but it takes some preparation and research. You have to formally appeal against the NTO now and there may be more grounds for appeal than you realise, not just 'there wasn't a PCN' (that on its own is not usually enough so please don't try that on its own). Reason being there probably was a PCN but some prankster removed it, and all the Council have to do is show that they DID serve one (put it on the windscreen) which they be able to do through photos if taken, and the CEO's notebook.

Most most people do win their cases who appeal as far as an adjudicator - and in your case you'd be mad not to, as you are already at the 'all or nothing' appeal stage. Even if you lost at adjudication it would still be £70 - and if you win or the Council fold beforehand (very common) then you pay nowt. So a gamble with the odds in your favour and - as long as you do not ignore any letters or miss your appeal deadlines - there's no risk of paying more than the £70 you are already in for!

First have a look at these threads on pepipoo:

pepipoo link to threads like yours with 'no PCN served' (a little light reading!).

See the typical advice given to people, and notice that on pepipoo new posters have to provide pictures of their paperwork & explain the circumstances & where the car park was (so basically repeat your first post copied & pasted over there but with pictures of all sides of the NTO).

Also most people are advised to email the Council for the Parking Places Order for that car park, to see whether there are any anomalies in the enforcement document for that place (pepipoo will look at it if you get the document PDF and post it in their 'repository' - ask them about that). But make sure you do NOT mention the PCN if you ask the Council for the Order as you do not want the Council to mistake the request as your representation against the NTO!

Anyway, once you have got the gist of pepipoo forums then register, read the FAQs like 'how to post pictures' and start yoiur own new topic here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

If your thread drops to page 2 on there and you still need help then give it a little reply bump and ask your question again. It's a really busy forum and some cases can get overlooked if you don't keep it current. Also if you do email for the Order then do not just wait, keep a close eye on your deadline for appealing the NTO as if you miss that deadline you would pay even more (but only because they'd consider you never replied and did not want adjudication either).

sleepystar1975

Thank you, I will give that a try. Anything is worth a shot huh:beer:

sleepystar1975

Just to update - I wrote to the issuing council, explaining that although I accept responsibility for not showing Mums badge correctly, I did not receive the primary PCN, so felt it unfair that I had to pay the charge at the undiscounted rate. Time got closer and closer to the deadline for payment, and I was getting nervous, so I made sure I had the £70 available to pay on-line, just in case, thinking I could try to claim 50% back retrospectively.
On the day before the deadline, I got a random letter from someone in the "enforcement" department, saying they understand I am a blue badge holder, and they would like to see the badge copied both sides! My letter clearly stated that Mum is the blue badge holder, and on that day, the letter arrived, she was away visiting relatives in New Zealand, and her blue badge was in her car - at Heathrow!!! arrgh!
So, I phoned the number on that letter, to find the person named in the letter was unavailable to speak to, but another lady offered to help. I have to admit, by this time, I felt like I was getting nowhere, but the lady carefully listened, and when I said that I was more than willing to pay the discounted £35, but begrudged not having that chance in the first correspondence I had received, she couldn't understand why I had gotten the subsequent letter that day, as they should have just written to say they will accept £35.
So...I did, there and then, and my case is closed (have received that in writing this morning!!)

So, lesson learnt...never throw Mothers blue badge and clock on the dashboard - without checking the badge is unobstructed.

Thank-you coupon-mad for encouraging me to make the appeal, I appreciate it )

TrickyWicky

Email the parking department with a SHORT explanation of whats happened (they don't like the long sob story I'm afraid) and ask for them to reconsider the case. They are under no obligation to do so but some will.

taffy056

TrickyWicky wrote: »

Email the parking department with a SHORT explanation of whats happened (they don't like the long sob story I'm afraid) and ask for them to reconsider the case. They are under no obligation to do so but some will.

Too late for that , the poster has admitted responsibity and paid the £35 already so case closed. Personally I would have appealed the whole thing to the adjudicator with the help pepipoo posters myself, but hey ho