Ordinary Power of Attorney for long term

Bejay1

Can an Ordinary (General) Power of Attorney be used to manage somebodies finances for an indefinite period, I understand it becomes invalid if you lose capacity and how much would a solicitor charge.

Mrs_Money

I'm not sure, but isn't OPA defunct now? I believe Lasting Power of Attorney is now taken out when the person still has capacity (and lasts for ever- as in the name) and if the person has already lost their mental capacity, it is a case of applying to the Court of Protection :eek: to become the incapacitated person's Deputy to act in all their affairs. The link is to Direct.gov and explains. The Court of Protection is slow to act, difficult to deal with, paperwork heavy and a complete nightmare. If at all possible LPA seems to be the way to go!
As for solicitor costs, I'm sorry I have no idea (a relative of mine was charged about £700 for setting up a deputyship recently) - perhaps someone more knowledgeable will come along and help.

Bejay1

Thanks for your reply.

I was interested in the OPA because it follows the lines of an EPA except for the mental incapacity bit. It was a sad day when they replaced the EPA with LPA so much extra paperwork and time with no improvements; except big bills.

The LPA looks like being the only route. Which is sad the OPA is very much available in kit form and can easily be drawn up, supposed to be short duration but I have read they can be used for indefinite periods; Solicitors dont seem to want to promote them, and banks don't seem to recognise them.

I will probably have to proceed with an LPA.

gingerfox

I would ring round see if the fee varies.

I have EPA, for which my mother paid a solicitor's fee several years ago - now they want another fee to register it - and this is on top of the already hefty Court fee! Like many changing policies, there is only one winner and it isn't the public.

The solicitor told me it would have been £500 for the LPA. Hope you can find a more reasonable one.

Biggles

Bejay1 wrote: »

The LPA looks like being the only route. Which is sad the OPA is very much available in kit form and can easily be drawn up

The LPA is also available in kit form, in as much as all the forms and the notes are available to download free of charge from the Public Guardian website. There's only a small fee to register it.

Biggles

gingerfox wrote: »

I have EPA, for which my mother paid a solicitor's fee several years ago - now they want another fee to register it - and this is on top of the already hefty Court fee!

You only need to register it if she has lost (or is losing) mental capacity. How does a court fee come into it?

gingerfox

Biggles wrote: »

You only need to register it if she has lost (or is losing) mental capacity. How does a court fee come into it?

Court of Protection, you have to register it when it kicks into action - ie when the person loses mental capacity. Costs £130.

Biggles

gingerfox wrote: »

Court of Protection, you have to register it when it kicks into action - ie when the person loses mental capacity. Costs £130.

No, you register the EPA with the Office of the Public Guardian for £130. You only need to deal with the Court of Protection if you don't have a PoA - and the OP talked of the EPA registration fee being 'on top of the already hefty Court fee'. Hence my question. It doesn't add up.

Bejay1

Now you've really started me off. The new LPA was drawn up by MP's mostly lawyers to feather there own nests and solicitors have made a fortune; just like the Government of the day allowed Doctors to make a packet, they did the same for solicitors.

You did well to get an EPA before the LPA cloud descended. I think the most stupid aspect of the LPA is having to get certificate providers, whereas before a visit to the solicitor to sign off an EPA was quite enough; and you have to notify relatives, so no privacy. Perhaps the worst aspect is now forcing everybody to register and pay £130 for the privilege whereas before for EPA you only register and pay when the donor loses capacity and that probably only applies to say 10% of EPA's. Remember 'pick your pocket' Gordon Brown and his stealth taxes, why do I get the feeling this was another one; everybody will have to get a PoA at some stage,and yet the national press said nothing at the time.

I thought the OPA over an indefinite period should be a suitable alternative (exception of mental capacity), at least as a stop gap for most people and it costs very little, but solicitors don't want you to do it, they make a packet doing LPA's. The consumer always seems to be ignored.

The 'pick your pocket' Government didn't stop with the LPA for financial affairs but introduced the LPA for personal affairs, again at £500 a time, when a living Will will do the same. If they had to have LPA why not combine the two?, why have a seperate document, double the costs, two registrations so 'pick the pocket' Government wins again.

I had to use an EPA 7 years ago, it was a perfect example of something worked, it was simple to set up, cost very little and seamless to use under most trying circumstances, and the solicitor was very helpful at the time.

Thats it.

dzug1

The reason for the new system was perceived widespread fraud and abuse of the old one

Whether it's the best way of doing that is debatable but the notion that the primary object of it is to make money is risible

Mr_Ted

This is a little off topic but is very very important, and I speak from experience.

A consideration must be if you are doing this on your own as a named Power of Attorney or jointly with another person?

A clause that will be most pertinent is "jointly or severally" within the document if you are going to act with another person!
I would make sure the "severally" wording is excluded, as this means that either person can act without the authority of the other, whereas "jointly" mean that it has to be by agreement of both parties.

Believe me the "severally" element can cause all sorts of problems if one person believes they are right and just goes ahead with whatever there take is on any issue!!!
I speak from 8 years experience of another party who abused the "severally" clause and created all sorts of problems to do with care that are still ongoing, even though my parents have both passed on!!!

And another thing if it comes down to care, which it is quite possible it will, is to make sure that the Health Authorities follow the correct proceedures and diagnosis of needs, they will attempt to avoid this or underestimate needs to avoid them being responsible for costs!!!

There is a lot of information available on the WWW so I would advise to do your homework before an issue becomes an issue, and be warned it is a nightmare!!!!