MSE News: EU overhaul leads to faster electronic payments

callum9999

egrid1 wrote: »

Can somebody confirm whether the practice of sending the first payment to a specific account, through the old method, will continue.

There have been some banks that have offered "Faster Payment", but when it is used for a one off payment, to a recipient that you have not sent to before, they have sent it through the normal route (3 days+).
Nationwide was one bank that followed this practice.

Will the first payment also have to go through "Faster Payments", or be the next working day, or still the old route?:question:

When have Nationwide ever done that? Ever since they adopted faster payments (quite a long time ago now) all my payments have gone via FP, whether it was the first one to a new payee or not.

NFH

jamesd wrote: »

A sender is allowed to say pay on a different day, that can be done via FP and presumably also via BACS Direct Credits:

"(4) Where the payment service user initiating a payment order agrees with its payment service provider that execution of the payment order is to take place—

(a)on a specific day;

(b)on the last day of a certain period; or

(c)on the day on which the payer has put funds at the disposal of its payment service provider,

the time of receipt is deemed to be the day so agreed."

Yes, that's applicable to payments instructed in advance which is all well and good, but if an employer instructs its bank on day T+0 to make an immediate salary payment by BACS, then the payment will not be received (or sent) until T+2, which breaches Regulation 70(1).

noh

NFH wrote: »

Yes, that's applicable to payments instructed in advance which is all well and good, but if an employer instructs its bank on day T+0 to make an immediate salary payment by BACS, then the payment will not be received (or sent) until T+2, which breaches Regulation 70(1).

Employers instruct their banks in advance to make salary Payments by BACS Direct Credit thats how the system works.
If they wish to make an immediate payment then BACS cannot be used an alternative method would have to be employed..
BACS Direct Credit complies with the Directive because it is future dated.

Mikeyorks

NFH wrote: »

How does it comply? It doesn't comply with Regulation 70(1) of the Payment Services Regulations 2009, the UK enactment of the PSD. This requires the payment to reach the payee's account by T+1 after the payment order is given, but you're suggesting that reaching the payee's account by T+2 is acceptable; it is not.

Just where do I suggest the payment is credited on D+2? The detail is significant :

Mikeyorks wrote:

It's a 3 day cycle with the debit / credit on the 3rd day

The payment is both debited and credited on D+0. Fully compliant - just as with Direct Debits.

There's a world of difference between BACS and BACS Direct Credits.

NFH

Mikeyorks wrote: »

Just where do I suggest the payment is credited on D+2?

You wrote "It's a 3 day cycle with the debit / credit on the 3rd day". It's irrelevant when the payment is debited from the payer's account. The relevant period is from the date of the payment order to the date the payment is received in the payee's account. As this must always be more than one working day with BACS, it does not comply.

noh

NFH wrote: »

You wrote "It's a 3 day cycle with the debit / credit on the 3rd day". It's irrelevant when the payment is debited from the payer's account. The relevant period is from the date of the payment order to the date the payment is received in the payee's account. As this must always be more than one working day with BACS, it does not comply.

BACS Direct Credit complies.
jamesd pointed out why in his previous post and gave a link to the legislation
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/209/regulation/65/made

If it is agreed that a payment takes place on a specified future date then the date of receipt of the payment order is deemed to be that date.
Therefore receipt and payment take place on the same day .

NFH

noh wrote: »

BACS Direct Credit complies.
jamesd pointed out why in his previous post and gave a link to the legislation
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/209/regulation/65/made

If it is agreed that a payment takes place on a specified future date then the date of receipt of the payment order is deemed to be that date.
Therefore receipt and payment take place on the same day .

As already stated, it's irrelevant whether the payment and receipt take place on the same day. The relevant delay is between the payment order and the receipt into the payee's account.

The scenario you're quoting above is relevant for advance payments only which comply with the Regulations within little difficulty. The more significant question is for immediate payments.

noh

For immediate payments Faster Payments or CHAPS need to be used.
For future dated payments BACS direct credit can be used.
All the three methods comply with the regulations.

I don't understand what your point is.

Mikeyorks

NFH wrote: »

You wrote "It's a 3 day cycle with the debit / credit on the 3rd day". It's irrelevant when the payment is debited from the payer's account. The relevant period is from the date of the payment order to the date the payment is received in the payee's account. As this must always be more than one working day with BACS, it does not comply.

In which case 90% of the working UK population won't get paid this month - as BACS Direct Credits is how it's done. Fortunately for them - it is fully compliant.

Your (lack of) knowledge of BACS Direct Credits appears to be right up there with your (lack of) knowledge of SOs. From your equal obtuseness on an earlier thread.

And - based on your logic(?) then Direct Debits don't comply either as they have the same initiation / cycle as Direct Credits.

pfpf

i am assuming this only effects bank transfers?

if i pay my CC bill in full using a debit card each month it can still take days to appear on my CC statement?

but if i push the payment from my current account to my CC it has to be same day?

is that right?

thanks.