Tenancy renewal and AWOL Landlady

littlesaint

Hi,

In December, our letting agency wrote asking us to let them know in writing if we wanted to stay at our current rental property. Our contract is up on March 10 and we are obliged to give two months notice. So on January 10th we emailed them informing them that we wished to stay on. They told us that they would find out from the landlady whether this was possible.

After that, we heard nothing. About 10 days ago we chased, and the letting agent said they still hadn't heard back from her. Since then, we have left them to it, partly thinking that if we don't hear back they might let us stay on temporarily (as it happens I hope to move out in the summer though my flatmates plan to stay longer) or at least give us two months notice if the landlady wants to sell or whatever.

However, reading the post on Chop05's situation made me look at the notification letter again. It mentions section 21, which is apparently stated in clause 10 of our contract. I take it this means that we would have no rights to remain in the property after March 10th if a new tenancy agreement was not signed?

Doozergirl

I deleted my original post because I am now thoroughly confused. I was sitting quite happily in a dream world but it appears I haven't got a clue and that renting is actually a great deal more of a hassle and a lot more tenuous than just owning a house if a letting agent can just issue an S21 within the AST and then expect you either out or to extort you out of the money for a new tenancy. Especially if your landlady can't be bothered to reply; perhaps she doesn't understand the situation either!

littlesaint

Thanks Doozergirl. I suppose my situation is, the last thing I want to do is leave on March 10th anyway. My boyfriend's moving to London later in the year and I don't want to have to go through a move twice in one year. I would rather stay here until then.

Leaving that aside, it will be 10th February on Saturday. If she finally gets back to them and wants to sell or whatever, I guess that legally means she can get us out on the 10th March. While we could probably find somewhere in less than a month, we all have other committments now. One of my flatmates is going on holiday and I have plans for the next month too.

And then there's the scenario that she doesn't get back to the LAs at all. What could they do? Would they let us stay on until they hear otherwise?

Doozergirl

Well, if she doesn't get back to them, I suspect she'd be mightily miffed to find they'd kicked you out! They can't get anyone else in as they'd need her signature, so I don't think you need to worry about the letting agent asking you to leave.

Either way, I find it outrageous if she were allowed to simply ask you to leave on March 10th with such little proper notice. But, if she did turn up mid0February and ask you to leave on March 10th, I think you'd have a pretty fair reason for not moving until you find something suitable.

It makes my blood boil that people think they are clever issuing S21s early in the tenancy when the outcome is poor you not knowing what the hell is going on. A tenant deserves far more security than that; you're landlady is probably oblivious to the S21, it's obviously been put there by the LA so they can con the fee for a new AST out of you. :wall:

littlesaint

Doozergirl wrote:

But, if she did turn up mid0February and ask you to leave on March 10th, I think you'd have a pretty fair reason for not moving until you find something suitableQUOTE]

I am hoping that this is the case, even if she only got back to us now and told us to up sticks on April 8th it will be preferable, though we are hoping it will not come to that. As for the fee, hope that will not be the case, but I wouldn't put it past them. Letting agency seem to come up with more ways of making money every time I rent a place - and I've rented about 7 places in as many years!

prudryden

doozer and littlesaint -
We have been having a very good discussion on this very subject for a little while now. Go here and good luck.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=366877&page=4

littlesaint

Thanks Pru,

Will put a post on the other thread, including an update: just retrieved our s21 agreement which states:

"A. On or after coming to the end of a fixed term assured shorthold tenancy, a court must make an order for possession if the landlord has given a notice in writing.

B. Where there are joing landlords at least one of them must give this notice.

C. The length of the notice must be at least two months, and the notice must be given before or on the day on which the fixed term comes to an end."

Which suggests that now we can leave no earlier than 8th April assuming notice is served tomorrow.

Thanks for your comments... hope to discuss this further on the other thread.

Doozergirl

When you say S21 agreement, do you mean your AST agreement (your tenancy agreement)

That doesn't look like you've been issued with a Section 21, that looks like an explanation of what the LL has to do to comply with the law.

If they haven't served you with something that specifically says that you need to be out by 10th March, then they haven't issued one yet. It would need to be quite clear to be one.

You don't need to pay to sign a new agreement either in that case; you just let it hold over if that is what you would prefer.

See what the others say though

littlesaint

Yeah, it's a s21, in addition to our AST. I read the thread on s21s, which seems to suggest that anyone receiving a s21 must leave after the last day of the AST. But the clauses on the s21, I mentioned contradict that, suggesting that we have to have written notice from the landlord before the AST expires. I am hoping I will get some clarification of this on the other thread.

Tiglet

Doozergirl wrote:

That doesn't look like you've been issued with a Section 21, that looks like an explanation of what the LL has to do to comply with the law.

If they haven't served you with something that specifically says that you need to be out by 10th March, then they haven't issued one yet. It would need to be quite clear to be one.

I wasn't sure about that either. I checked the wording of a s21 notice that had been sent out by a solicitor, and it included a set of notes, very similar to what littlesaint was quoting, on the second page.

Since these are standard forms, I have assumed (on the s21 thread) that she must have received the s21 notice if she had the notes.

To clear up any confusion, a Section 21 notice typically says

Housing Act 1988
Section 21

To <tenant's name and address>
I <landlord's name and address>
give you notice that I require possession if the dwelling house known as <address of property>
after <date>
or other date being the last day of the period of the tenancy two months from the date of service hereof

There's no set form for the notice but that is the minimum it needs to say, apart from being signed and dated.