Payday Loans -Please read and agree!!!

RichGold

Our government interferes more than enough thank you very much.

If you want to see what happens in states where the government controls what happens in your everyday lives i suggest you google "Arab Spring".

ses6jwg

Far from what the left-wing press would have you believe, the majority of people taking these loans out are NOT doing it to pay bills or put food in their childrens stomachs.

They are taking them out to buy the latest iPhone or Xmas presents for their kids that they cannot afford, because that is what the TV tells them to do and they have "keep up" with the Joneses next door - even if the Joneses work 9-5 and have saved for 2 months to pay for their Xmas presents.

If they are using them to pay bills, its because the money they did have was spent on ridiculous items that they do not need.

People on low incomes are around today just like they were around 10,20,30,40,50 years ago.

The major difference between then and now is that people used to save up for the tat they couldn't afford/ didn't need. Nowadays we live in an entitlement culture and people believe payday loan companies owe them the money to pay for that tat.

meer53

goodz wrote: »

I intervene if I see someone doing that.

Similarly it's not the fault of drivers when they run down mindless kids stepping into the road without looking.

It's not the fault of the railways when yobs walk on the line and get electrocuted or run down by trains.

It's not the fault of electricity substations when thieves blow themselves up trying to steal metal.

It's not the fault of bicycle manufacturers when people fall off and break their necks.

It's not the fault of horses when people fall off and break their necks or get rolled on and get crushed.

There is a body of thought that considers that it's ok for weak, vulnerable moronic people to destroy themselves via payday loans - and the above listed perils - while the exploiters get rich.

But some of us believe that the state has a duty of care to citizens and that the state is supposed to intervene to save incompetent incapable people from their madness and self destruction. But currently the government allows them to be eaten by big business and their remains trodden underfoot.

That's not good enough. Cameron is a failure and is negligent and unfit for purpose, as were Brown, Blair, Major, Thatcher etc.

If the "incompetent, incapable" people didn't spend more than they earn there wouldn't be any Payday Loan companies. Is it the Governments fault that they do this ? No-one forces them to spend more than they have coming in. The Government provides them all with education, including Mathematics, what else are they supposed to do ? Monitor everyones bank accounts ?
Your comments are silly. And what does David Cameron have to do with any of this ?

alox123

Having been 'stung' (and still fighting my way out) or a Payday loan cycle, I have mixed feelings about these companies.

Thanks to Family, Friends and a Credit Union I will be free of them by April/May (assuming I have no serious hicups). Its going to have cost me £1000's over the past year so since I have used them.

However - why they are good: They are fast, easy and pretty simple. Signing up to Wonga, applying and get money in your account in 30 mins. Easy. Infact, a mate of mine wanted a Xbox on Tuesday, payday was Friday. We sat in the pub, he signed up and applied using his phone. He had an Xbox an hour later. It cost him about £20 in charges.

They are a good last resort. Its nice to know there IS a back up. If family or friends can't help, you can't sell anything and your DESPERATE, there is help. I know, if all else fails I have one last resort.

They make it very clear how much they charge. I usually see more warnings about APR on a Payday loan site than I do on my banks website.

The bad - getting stuck on the cycle is HELL and your opening the door to financial ruin. I know this, and can confirm - they have put me in the worse possible financial position. I know I applied and I was aware of the charges.

They are (contrary to what I just said) too easy to get, massively appealing to desperate people and, in my experience - actively encouraged people to borrow more or extend loans. I have companies ring me 2 weeks before they are due asking if I would like to extend my loan. I have had incentives of discounts of I repeatedly borrow. And I get asked if I want 'add funds'.

I feel they fill a gap in the market, but many of the people in that market are either desperate or don't have the financial savvy to REALLY consider the implications. I am absolutely one of those people. However, my dealings with them and the help I'm getting means I'm less and less one of those people every day.

I think they should be governed tighter. No extensions (although I would be screwed if this were the case), they should be cheaper - or they should be given bandings depending on their interest levels and they should ALWAYS insist people reduce their capital.

If you needed a loan, but you could get a high street loan, chances are you have a good credit file, earn enough to repay comfortably and are not in a huge hurry. If you get a payday loan it means you can't borrow from anywhere else. You have either a poor history, don't earn enough or are over committed - and these three factors mean a high interest, easy to defer loan are not for you.

Like people say, if you think you need a payday loan - REALLY think hard. Ask family, friends - even work. Get an extra shift. Is there not something you could put of paying for a week, or a month? Ask the people you pay bills to if you can make a partial payment this month.

The situation is is, they are pushing people into financial ruin - whether its their fault or the lenders fault, people are having problems with them. I very rarely hear a good word about them, just all the hassle they cause. If the government doesn't ban them or govern them more now, the problems will just grow. Until financial education is taught in schools, people will recklessly borrow and borrow and borrow until they are FORCED to stop.


For me - how the cycled happened. Borrow to buy something I want (not need). Payback. Borrow again to buy something else, but this time I borrow more to pay off the interest from the last one and to get something better. Payback. Oh, wait. I've borrowed to much and this month I can't pay my phone bill. Its OK, borrow more. Oh, crap.
The interest on the last one that I used to cover my phone bill is too much and I can't pay my phone or water bill. I'll check my spam inbox, see if anyone else will lend me money. Oh, look - a thousand emails all wanting to help out. It OK though, because next month I will pay that first loan off, roll the new one over and pay that one the month after. You spend £80 on a night out because you had a tough day and have very little self control. You cant afford to pay the first one back, so you roll over both. And so on. That's not how it happens for everyone. But the combination of ease of obtaining funds, being not financially savvy and an amazing ability to stick my head in the sand were not a good combination.



Thats all.

RobertoMoir

goodz wrote: »

I intervene if I see someone doing that.

Similarly it's not the fault of drivers when they run down mindless kids stepping into the road without looking.

It's not the fault of the railways when yobs walk on the line and get electrocuted or run down by trains.

It's not the fault of electricity substations when thieves blow themselves up trying to steal metal.

It's not the fault of bicycle manufacturers when people fall off and break their necks.

It's not the fault of horses when people fall off and break their necks or get rolled on and get crushed.

There is a body of thought that considers that it's ok for weak, vulnerable moronic people to destroy themselves via payday loans - and the above listed perils - while the exploiters get rich.

Considering you posted that little speech as a reply to me, your implication is that I'm part of that "body of thought". I resent that implication. I've put a lot of time over the few years I've been on this board into helping people with varying kinds of debt problem.

But some of us believe that the state has a duty of care to citizens and that the state is supposed to intervene to save incompetent incapable people from their madness and self destruction. But currently the government allows them to be eaten by big business and their remains trodden underfoot.

That's not good enough. Cameron is a failure and is negligent and unfit for purpose, as were Brown, Blair, Major, Thatcher etc.

So in your nice little rant I've seen nothing to address my major problem with the idea that PDL companies should be banned. I'm sure I just misread your post and you're not just spouting platitudes instead of offering solutions, but perhaps you could help me by pointing out where you addressed my point about the vacuum that would be created, and how we could be sure that whoever moved to occupy that vacuum would be better?

I'll try and make it real easy for you:

• I'd love to see things improved for the vulnerable people, debt-wise, in society.
• PDLs, for all the problems they do cause, are not loan sharks
• Some of the people we see here would rather flirt with fraud in their loan applications rather than face the truth of their financial state.
• There is a real worry that the kind of people I mention above would go to loan sharks if they couldn't go to PDL companies.
• ... So: what would you suggest?

People ignoring this problem isn't good enough. I totally agree. But neither is just pretending that we can somehow ban the current lenders of last resort and things would magically be better.

RobertoMoir

alox123 wrote: »

However - why they are good: They are fast, easy and pretty simple. Signing up to Wonga, applying and get money in your account in 30 mins. Easy. Infact, a mate of mine wanted a Xbox on Tuesday, payday was Friday. We sat in the pub, he signed up and applied using his phone. He had an Xbox an hour later. It cost him about £20 in charges.

You know, yes they're convenient but I for one think this is why they are bad, not why they are good.

If it was more effort and time to obtain a loan from any lender, hopefully while they ran a few more checks on people, then people might think about the consequences of what they're actually doing a bit more.

Amba_Gambla wrote: »

So you think the government needs to intervene more in order to 'save us from ourselves' !??!?!

Unbelievable...
:doh: :wall: :shocked:

I'd love to see more education on financial affairs so that people actually understood what a loan meant, what a mortgage meant, what the implications were, how interest works, etc.

That would be good, positive intervention - give people the right tools to make better decisions for themselves.

Outlawing various ways for people to be stupid just makes the people taking advantage of them harder to spot and drives it further underground. Helping people not to make bad decisions in the first place might take longer to achieve but it will be the gift that keeps on giving.

alox123

The government is responsible for the welfare of its citizens. If the welfare of people becomes compromised at the hand of someone taking advantage of its customers by making what they wan't easy to get, and even tempt them with offers the government should intervene. Its the same with alcohol. Its dangerous if consumed by people vulnerable to its affects, so the government brings in strict licencing laws. Can sell to drunk or underage, must sell responsibly, minimum pricing levels etc. Banning alcohol would be a TERRIBLE IDEA (I struggle to have my girlfriend drag me though another season of X-factor without it), but having restrictions to encourage people to drink responsibly is essential. The same should apply to lending money. I have heard of people (on this forum) with 12 at a time. At what point does lender 12 think what I am doing is clearly irresponsible. When payday loan companies exploit loop holes and use the law to their advantage, it says a lot about their intentions. I'm sure there are already laws in place they need to follow. I assume without these they would make even more money and not feel an ounce of guilt doing it. Like, I'm sure if Tesco were allowed to sell beer to 16 years olds they would, and they would make a killing. I hope there is a vague relevance in the point I'm making.

BoGoF

alox123 wrote: »

I hope there is a vague relevance in the point I'm making.

None whatsoever IMHO

alox123

RobertoMoir wrote: »

You know, yes they're convenient but I for one think this is why they are bad, not why they are good.

If it was more effort and time to obtain a loan from any lender, hopefully while they ran a few more checks on people, then people might think about the consequences of what they're actually doing a bit more.

I agree, I also have their ease as a bad point. They have saved my bacon (I'm pretty sure I even bought bacon with a payday loan, most expensive bacon I ever bought) once or twice, no doubt. But by the time you need your bacon saving you have very few options. That's the problem. People get them at first thinking its an OK option and they can pay it back, no problem. Then, all of a sudden you have a problem and can't pay it

ses6jwg

alox123 wrote: »

The government is responsible for the welfare of its citizens. If the welfare of people becomes compromised at the hand of someone taking advantage of its customers by making what they wan't easy to get, and even tempt them with offers the government should intervene. Its the same with alcohol. Its dangerous if consumed by people vulnerable to its affects, so the government brings in strict licencing laws. Can sell to drunk or underage, must sell responsibly, minimum pricing levels etc. Banning alcohol would be a TERRIBLE IDEA (I struggle to have my girlfriend drag me though another season of X-factor without it), but having restrictions to encourage people to drink responsibly is essential. The same should apply to lending money. I have heard of people (on this forum) with 12 at a time. At what point does lender 12 think what I am doing is clearly irresponsible. When payday loan companies exploit loop holes and use the law to their advantage, it says a lot about their intentions. I'm sure there are already laws in place they need to follow. I assume without these they would make even more money and not feel an ounce of guilt doing it. Like, I'm sure if Tesco were allowed to sell beer to 16 years olds they would, and they would make a killing. I hope there is a vague relevance in the point I'm making.

Err, just like with alcohol you cannot take out a loan unless you are 18 i.e. an adult i.e. someone who is assumed to be responsible.

If we are using alcohol as an example, there is nothing to stop me going to the shop and purchasing 5 bottles of Vodka and drinking myself to death. The reason I don't do it is because I am a responsible adult who realises that drinking to an excess results in death.

The same reason I don't take out payday loans is because I realise that they are an extortionate APR as set out quite clearly in their advertisements and taking them out to an excess will land me in financial difficulty.

Your argument is ludicrous.