Buying first motorbike - should I wait until March?

cyclonebri1

Trebor16 wrote: »

I think your memory is playing tricks with you Brian. There is no way that Honda produced a 33bhp four stroke twin back in 1968. That would be a specific power output of 132bhp per litre. The CB750 that was introduced that year produced a claimed 67bhp or 89bhp per litre with a brand new four cylinder engine.

None of the two stroke offerings at the time produced anywhere near that figure either. It took until 1980 when Yamaha introduced the RD250LC, with a claimed 35bhp that the 33bhp figure was breached. The Suzuki GT250 produced between 30.5 and 32bhp during its model life from 1971 through to 1978. Interestingly, the GT250X7 was claimed to produce 29bhp, 3bhp less than its predecessor.

Well I'm pretty sure it was 33 bhp. It was the 1st of the CB250s after the ******s, (now that I can't recall the name of).

It was a fantastic bike in terms of performance but a pig for reliability. It had twin Nikuni (sp) carbs that had an inherent fault, the diaphrams in them didn't last over a few months. A popular mod even back then was retrofit Amal Monoblock carbs, which infact I did, but it did take the edge of the performance.

If I told you this was my 2nd bike, sandwiched between a175cc BSA Bantam, (about 12bhp at a guess), and a 650 Triumph Bonneville at about 45bhp, it kind of puts the power output into perspective.

I know this is hard to believe as this was a 1968 bike thast I bought in 1970 but it was true and they did detune it in the following model. Wether that was for legal reasons or reliability I don't know.
I'll take a look later and print up some info.

Edited to add;

A quick search found the following, it was actually "only" 30bhp, but still not bad for those days. The 1st of the small performance twins. James May has just added 1 to his classic collection.:

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_cb250T%2071.htm

cyclonebri1

Honeydog wrote: »

Its his age.

You know according to your signature you did make a mistake in 1954, (or rather your parents did) .

Trebor16

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Well I'm pretty sure it was 33 bhp. It was the 1st of the CB250s after the ******s, (now that I can't recall the name of).

It was a fantastic bike in terms of performance but a pig for reliability. It had twin Nikuni (sp) carbs that had an inherent fault, the diaphrams in them didn't last over a few months. A popular mod even back then was retrofit Amal Monoblock carbs, which infact I did, but it did take the edge of the performance.

If I told you this was my 2nd bike, sandwiched between a175cc BSA Bantam, (about 12bhp at a guess), and a 650 Triumph Bonneville at about 45bhp, it kind of puts the power output into perspective.

I know this is hard to believe as this was a 1968 bike thast I bought in 1970 but it was true and they did detune it in the following model. Wether that was for legal reasons or reliability I don't know.
I'll take a look later and print up some info.

Edited to add;

A quick search found the following, it was actually "only" 30bhp, but still not bad for those days. The 1st of the small performance twins. James May has just added 1 to his classic collection.:

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_cb250T%2071.htm

I suspect the claim by Honda of 30bhp was optimistic as that is still 120bhp per litre. To put that in perspective, in 1967 the Cosworth DFV engine made its first appearance in Formula 1 and it produced a claimed 408bhp. This was a three litre engine and gives a specific output of 136bhp per litre, which is not much more than the specific output of the CB250.

cyclonebri1

Trebor16 wrote: »

I suspect the claim by Honda of 30bhp was optimistic as that is still 120bhp per litre. To put that in perspective, in 1967 the Cosworth DFV engine made its first appearance in Formula 1 and it produced a claimed 408bhp. This was a three litre engine and gives a specific output of 136bhp per litre, which is not much more than the specific output of the CB250.

I can only go by the figures that Honda published, if you disbelieve them then , well, I can't argue. It is your privaledge, lead a horse to water etc.

I do recall it was detuned by 3bhp at the next facelift, that must be were the other "3" came in. For it's time it was a trully rapid bike up to sensible speeds, beat the Yammy twin and the Suzuki Super 6 off the road, I know as I had mates that had them.

Strange how on such a decent 250, they fitted those Bridgestone nylon suicide tyres, now they were an experience,

A guy that used to work for me a few years ago was an accomplished Club bike racer, he always said the target for bikes was 1bhp per 1kg, that was the point at which it got interesting.

Honeydog

zishan555 wrote: »

Hello all,

I did my CBT a few months ago and am ready to get a Honda CBF 125 for commuting. I'm not really sure if buying in the next 2 months makes sense though since a new plate comes out in March.

I'll be looking to get a finance deal over 3 years.

So should I barter with the honda dealers now to get some extras thrown in like topbox,cover, security chain, etc
OR
should I wait to see what the 2012 model looks like and get that instead?

I'm not sure if Honda are releasing a new CBF 125 for 2012.
From a depreciation perspective, I plan on having the bike for about 1-2 years and doing about 10k.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated!

~Z

So what did you decide Z?

zishan555

Hello all!

Firstly thank you so much for taking the time to reply, I've gone through everything suggested and really appreciate your comments.

So this is what I've decided thus far, and why:


1. MONEY: The standard Honda deal for finance is about 4.9% which works out at about £70/month for three years with a little deposit.

I looked at second hand bikes in good condition and they would be aroudn £1900 (the cbf costs £2.5k new). Most bike dealerships will have a finance purchase arrangement to also buy over three years but the interest rate would be about 13% as standard with blackhorse. Ultimately the repayments get to be about £70 per month for 3 years again, so no real advantage from that perspective.

I was keen to get a finance arrangement because although I could just about afford to buy something with all the money up front, I can actually make money out of having 2k in my hand over that period of time. Plus with inflation at current rates, £2k in 2-3 years is a lot less than it is now.

Plus I will be directly replacing a 18 mile tube commute with the bike, is the plan (uxbridge to Angel, z6 to Z1). So the money I save in tube fair goes on the bike so that felt like a good way to make the switch AND my monthly costs actually go down.




2. DEALS: I'm pretty good at haggling but I couldn't get much leeway in terms of deals on that Honda package. Some places I know had a few Hondas that I know they've had for a while just sat there but they were pretty lukewarm about offering any kind of incentive, best I got was something like a box fitted and security chain for half price. I was surprised no dealer was keen to get them out the door before the year ticked over.

If they had been biting my hand off I would have bought one. But they weren't.

This may be a dumb question but can they just change the licence plate after March 1st themselves or why weren't they so keen to sell?



3. RESALE THOUGHTS: Don't tell anyone but I plan to get something a bit bigger and more powerful as soon as I am comfortable. I expect to have the bike for about 1-1.5 years before I sell on soon as I've done the motorbike test and can go up to something a bit more fitting.

[That may screw up my numbers a bit in terms of economics of commutability but ho hum!]

That said, the idea of waiting for a new licence plate comes into its own as then I'd potentially be selling something that was quite a lot newer sounding in resale terms.

I probably will drop it and scratch it and that's a good point, but whether it comes down to buying one new or second hand, the numbers above kinda still point me to a new bike.

Finance wise, there may be a hit in terms of what's left and what I manage to sell it for. All I can do there is look for a good sale price and work out later whether an early payment would be better. As I said, I can afford to do that because even with the up front costs of the bike, the reduced costs of travelling make it pay for itself. I'm just playing the game here.



4. INSURANCE: Just as a note here, I found insurance to be about £530 with bikedevil, no excess. Cheaper with others down to about £450 but with like £700 excess. I am likely to go with bikedevil.



5. DECISION: As you've probably figured, that's meant that I'm now without bike waiting for the new licence ones to come on sale with the standard honda package.

Yep i will drop it, but it will be a learning experience and should get me set up well for biking in the future.




I really cannot wait to own one now, being on the road on a bike I find such a thrill. Very free feeling.


Thanks again for your time, comments and support. Due to the nature of moneysavingexpert forums, I'm confident there will be lots of alternate opinions out there to what i've decided to do, so I'm happy to hear them!

I may post again with some pictures or something once I'm sorted.

cyclonebri1

Just take care chap, they are a joy in spring summer and autumn, just not so good in winter.

Just remember if you do get 1 right now for everyday commuting/transport, then you can usually blag a lift when conditions dictate, and I hate to go on but show me a biker who hasn't dropped a bike and I'll show you a liar, well words to that effect. Maybe a 1st bike shouldn't be a show stopper,

Trebor16

Zishan,

If you are looking at taking your test and then getting a bigger bike in 12-18 months then it might be more worthwhile to get an older machine for about the £1000 mark, something like a CG125 or YBR125. When you come to trade up you will get almost as much for the bike as you paid for it and there will be no finance deal to settle up on. Plus if you do drop the bike as it is secondhand and with no fairing then you won't be so upset as you would be dropping as brand new CBF125.

Honeydog

zishan555 wrote: »

Hello all!

Firstly thank you so much for taking the time to reply, I've gone through everything suggested and really appreciate your comments.

So this is what I've decided thus far, and why:


1. MONEY: The standard Honda deal for finance is about 4.9% which works out at about £70/month for three years with a little deposit.

I looked at second hand bikes in good condition and they would be aroudn £1900 (the cbf costs £2.5k new). Most bike dealerships will have a finance purchase arrangement to also buy over three years but the interest rate would be about 13% as standard with blackhorse. Ultimately the repayments get to be about £70 per month for 3 years again, so no real advantage from that perspective.

I was keen to get a finance arrangement because although I could just about afford to buy something with all the money up front, I can actually make money out of having 2k in my hand over that period of time. Plus with inflation at current rates, £2k in 2-3 years is a lot less than it is now.

Plus I will be directly replacing a 18 mile tube commute with the bike, is the plan (uxbridge to Angel, z6 to Z1). So the money I save in tube fair goes on the bike so that felt like a good way to make the switch AND my monthly costs actually go down.




2. DEALS: I'm pretty good at haggling but I couldn't get much leeway in terms of deals on that Honda package. Some places I know had a few Hondas that I know they've had for a while just sat there but they were pretty lukewarm about offering any kind of incentive, best I got was something like a box fitted and security chain for half price. I was surprised no dealer was keen to get them out the door before the year ticked over.

If they had been biting my hand off I would have bought one. But they weren't.

This may be a dumb question but can they just change the licence plate after March 1st themselves or why weren't they so keen to sell?



3. RESALE THOUGHTS: Don't tell anyone but I plan to get something a bit bigger and more powerful as soon as I am comfortable. I expect to have the bike for about 1-1.5 years before I sell on soon as I've done the motorbike test and can go up to something a bit more fitting.

[That may screw up my numbers a bit in terms of economics of commutability but ho hum!]

That said, the idea of waiting for a new licence plate comes into its own as then I'd potentially be selling something that was quite a lot newer sounding in resale terms.

I probably will drop it and scratch it and that's a good point, but whether it comes down to buying one new or second hand, the numbers above kinda still point me to a new bike.

Finance wise, there may be a hit in terms of what's left and what I manage to sell it for. All I can do there is look for a good sale price and work out later whether an early payment would be better. As I said, I can afford to do that because even with the up front costs of the bike, the reduced costs of travelling make it pay for itself. I'm just playing the game here.



4. INSURANCE: Just as a note here, I found insurance to be about £530 with bikedevil, no excess. Cheaper with others down to about £450 but with like £700 excess. I am likely to go with bikedevil.



5. DECISION: As you've probably figured, that's meant that I'm now without bike waiting for the new licence ones to come on sale with the standard honda package.

Yep i will drop it, but it will be a learning experience and should get me set up well for biking in the future.




I really cannot wait to own one now, being on the road on a bike I find such a thrill. Very free feeling.


Thanks again for your time, comments and support. Due to the nature of moneysavingexpert forums, I'm confident there will be lots of alternate opinions out there to what i've decided to do, so I'm happy to hear them!

I may post again with some pictures or something once I'm sorted.

Cheers for the update. Look forward to seeing the pics.

Ride safe when you get it.