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Dangerous variable speed limits on M4 Newport
So I was driving back home the other night 10.30pm, came across the bridge and the 50 signs were there approching the toll booths "50 in 3/4 mile" that's the way it should be done, so I slowed to 50.
Then later, going through all the gantries at Newport all of them switched off so doing a steady 68mph. When all of a sudden approaching the next gantry it was lit up at 50mph I only noticed at about 100 feet away, so I had to slam on the anchors to avoid a ticket. Luckily no one behind me, I was in the 3rd lane.
FYI the gantries in Newport M4 all have gatso lines underneath them and you don't know which ones have Gatsos on the back of them they all have camera signs on them. They are mandatory speed limit signs -when they are illuminated-.
I believe it was the second one before the tunnel, which I braked for. The one after that (the first one before the tunnel) was also lit up at "50" but this one was very dim, the leds were like they were on 30% of normal voltage so I didn't know what was going on. I was actually wondering if it was an optical illusion and it was actually not switched on at all.
Why did I not see it till the last second? Possibly there is a bend in the road as you approach, possibly the LED lights were not visible from that angle of looking at the gantry on approach. It was dark, I was concentrating on the road ahead, I was tired but not overly tired so that I was unsafe.
There was certainly no chance of me returning and going back to the previous junction to have another run at it to see if it was me or the gantry position that was mostly at fault.
But I think that to suddenly change the speed limit like that on a motorway with no prior warning (like there is at the bridge tolls and standard procedure at roadworks) is incredibly stupid and could easily cause an accident.
Why not put a warning on the previous gantry (the third one from the tunnel)? Like at the toll booths.
On a side note !!!!!! was the reduced limit for? The road was empty, there were no roadworks the tunnel was well lit and empty and the 50 limit was just for the tunnel it went back to NSL immmediately after the tunnel. !!!:mad:
On other occasions they don't restict the tunnel to 50 just for the hell of it, it's usually NSL.
EDIT:
Looking at the google map the bend is a left hand bend before the gantry in question, you have about 200m to see the gantry after rounding the bend, takes 3 seconds to do 100m at 70mph. 6 seconds to do the 200m assuming you see the gantry straight away, and assuming other factors like coming down the hill on approach does not further reduce your ability to see the LEDs lit up. You are looking in your mirror observing all the street furniture around you which complicates everything. Something else might have your attention within the car for a second.or 2. You might be overtaking other vehicles (like I was).
I don't think a 200metre warning (assuming it is visible at 200m) is long enough when you are travelling 70mph.
And remember after travelling through 6 - 7 - 10? gantries already showing no speed limit so you are lulled into believing the system is switched off at the moment.
They give you a half mile warning for the exit and 200m warning for a reduction in speed limit which if you fail to observe is a speeding ticket. And the bridge tols give you a 3/4 mile (36second) warning.
The bend is underneath Rembrandt Way, the gantry is at the sliproad exit for J25.
Then later, going through all the gantries at Newport all of them switched off so doing a steady 68mph. When all of a sudden approaching the next gantry it was lit up at 50mph I only noticed at about 100 feet away, so I had to slam on the anchors to avoid a ticket. Luckily no one behind me, I was in the 3rd lane.
FYI the gantries in Newport M4 all have gatso lines underneath them and you don't know which ones have Gatsos on the back of them they all have camera signs on them. They are mandatory speed limit signs -when they are illuminated-.
I believe it was the second one before the tunnel, which I braked for. The one after that (the first one before the tunnel) was also lit up at "50" but this one was very dim, the leds were like they were on 30% of normal voltage so I didn't know what was going on. I was actually wondering if it was an optical illusion and it was actually not switched on at all.
Why did I not see it till the last second? Possibly there is a bend in the road as you approach, possibly the LED lights were not visible from that angle of looking at the gantry on approach. It was dark, I was concentrating on the road ahead, I was tired but not overly tired so that I was unsafe.
There was certainly no chance of me returning and going back to the previous junction to have another run at it to see if it was me or the gantry position that was mostly at fault.
But I think that to suddenly change the speed limit like that on a motorway with no prior warning (like there is at the bridge tolls and standard procedure at roadworks) is incredibly stupid and could easily cause an accident.
Why not put a warning on the previous gantry (the third one from the tunnel)? Like at the toll booths.
On a side note !!!!!! was the reduced limit for? The road was empty, there were no roadworks the tunnel was well lit and empty and the 50 limit was just for the tunnel it went back to NSL immmediately after the tunnel. !!!:mad:
On other occasions they don't restict the tunnel to 50 just for the hell of it, it's usually NSL.
EDIT:
Looking at the google map the bend is a left hand bend before the gantry in question, you have about 200m to see the gantry after rounding the bend, takes 3 seconds to do 100m at 70mph. 6 seconds to do the 200m assuming you see the gantry straight away, and assuming other factors like coming down the hill on approach does not further reduce your ability to see the LEDs lit up. You are looking in your mirror observing all the street furniture around you which complicates everything. Something else might have your attention within the car for a second.or 2. You might be overtaking other vehicles (like I was).
I don't think a 200metre warning (assuming it is visible at 200m) is long enough when you are travelling 70mph.
And remember after travelling through 6 - 7 - 10? gantries already showing no speed limit so you are lulled into believing the system is switched off at the moment.
They give you a half mile warning for the exit and 200m warning for a reduction in speed limit which if you fail to observe is a speeding ticket. And the bridge tols give you a 3/4 mile (36second) warning.
The bend is underneath Rembrandt Way, the gantry is at the sliproad exit for J25.
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Comments
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Most likely previously in the day there was heavy traffic and somebody forgot to turn it off.0
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They're not as bad as the ones around Birmingham - I was once driving back from the airport at about 1am and the variable speed limit on the motorway was set to 20mph!!! There was hardly anything on the road except from a few HGVs which weren't slowing at all - I decided to slow to 55mph as slowing to 20 would have almost certainly lead to an accident.0
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I live in Newport and have the joys of driving on that stretch of road every day! Most nights when I come home it's lit up as 50 when there are NO cars around... and when it's extremely busy nothing is lit up? The system doesn't work they should just get rid of it to be honest. Grand waste of money but I do follow the speed religiously as I know there are cameras there!
I've had a similar situation where the signs just flash on 50 and you have to slam your brakes on, seen it cause a few accidents too!
Sometimes the signs will randomly come up as 20 too and you have to do it (on a motorway!) even though the traffic is really light.0 -
Welcome to the world of automated indiscriminate taxing of the few, seen at its best in CCTV land, the country formerly known as the UK.
Better system coming soon, road pricing by satellite monitoring, every journey will be logged and every taxable by fine error on that journey will be added to the bill.0 -
Couple of points.
1) There is a grace period after the limit changes for the camera to activate specifically to avoid the kind of situation you describe
2) The westbound tunnels seem to be on a 50 limit all the time, since the fire
3) I've only seen one gantry with viewing angle issues. It's fine until about 30 meters away at which point the sign starts to fade out since it's angled for people further around the corner. This one doesn't have a camera on the back either.0 -
It wasn't dangerous, I drive this stretch regularly and have never had a problem, as do you by the sound of it, hardly like you don't know the area.
As previously stated, the westbound tunnel is always on 50 now.
The variables have helped greatly to reduce congestion.
I'm just glad I wasn't behind you as you were quite obviously half asleep.
And why were you in the 3rd lane of an empty motorway?0 -
I knew someone would say that.And why were you in the 3rd lane of an empty motorway?
I had just over taken two cars in lane 1 & 2, I was in the 3rd lane going round a right hand bend & no one behind me in my lane. I had no intention of changing back into 1st lane until I was on the straight and could clearly see all around me.
It is dangerous IMO to change the limit without any prior warning that "the limit ahead is reducing" on a motorway where people are doing 70. and yes some may be half asleep, all the more reason for a prior warning. But I was not overly tired, as I already stated.
They even warn you of the limit change on the A470 as you head into Cardiff, plenty of warnings signs of an imminent reduction in speed ahead as it is a 70mph road.
I don't drive the tunnel very often at all, about 4 journeys per year take me out that way.0 -
Notmyrealname wrote: »You didn't notice a great big illuminated speed limit sign until you were almost on top of it and then your first reaction was to slam all on. How is that not unsafe? You were too tired to drive.
Without going back there to test out the reasons - which would be about an 80 mile round trip- (no thanks), I can't really comment except to say as I did earlier say, There is a right hand bend in the road as you approach that gantry and it is possible that this was most to blame along with all the street furniture which abounds in the place, like gantries signs and lampposts and the lamps were on which also could have contributed. There is a hell of a lot of information to be taking in, as well as the road ahead (the most important thing).0 -
1) There is a grace period after the limit changes for the camera to activate specifically to avoid the kind of situation you describe.
You're probably replying to adamc, as I don't know if it suddenly came on for me or not. but the reaction from drivers is going to be the same. Whether they see it come on or just notice it suddenly as they approach.
I bet most people would not know about any grace period, and would panic if they came on and they saw them actually switch on.
Also lets say a driver is driving along (like I was) and all seems fine, they are not lit up and he is doing 70. Every gantry so far has been 70 and you're trundling along. Then all of a sudden you notice the next one is switched on, you didn't see it actually switch on but the fact of the matter is, that it is now on. You don't know if it has just switched on this minute or if it is because it was not visible to you earlier or you happened to not notice it for whatever reason. You know there are cameras your only option is to brake, depending on your distance from it you might have to brake very hard.
This is dangerous.
It would probably make more sense rather than to just switch them on, to have a period of 5 minutes beforehand where they flash red lights like at railway crossings. and then to be ultra safe they could then have a tiered countdown of speed limits from 70 to 50. Infact I like my idea of flashing red lights so much I think they should be flashing (red lights) all the time while there is a speed limit inplace.0
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