Surprising Advice re Traction Control

adamc260

andrew-the-cat wrote: »

If you know 'diddly squat' about cars, why do you want to disable a proven safety system? Plus, are you sure you don't have a button to turn it off? It could be literally anywhere, it could say anything, something like "ESP", "ESP OFF", "TCS", or a picture of a skidding car like mine is. I'm pretty damn sure you can turn it off on the Fiesta as they did it in the top gear episode where Jeremy is driving it through a shopping centre. You might even have to do it through the onboard computer, that's how it is in my friends Volvo C30 (there is no dedicated button for it).
.

On the zetec s there is a button that disables it but on the rest of the range it is just a card holder. You can fit a button that removes it, simply remove part of the dash, push the new button in and the connection is behind already but ford have not opted to fit this across the range obviously due to cost. I want to have the feature there as like some people have said... sometimes you need to let the tyres spin (ie: in snow/ice) as if it keeps cutting the engine power you'll never go anywhere! I've looked through all of the computer in the car and nothing what so ever (Rather silly of them to do that mind you!). I probably will never need to switch it off but it's nice to know I can just incase that helps me get out of a situation.

Weird_Nev

adamc260 wrote: »

On the zetec s there is a button that disables it but on the rest of the range it is just a card holder. You can fit a button that removes it, simply remove part of the dash, push the new button in and the connection is behind already but ford have not opted to fit this across the range obviously due to cost. I want to have the feature there as like some people have said... sometimes you need to let the tyres spin (ie: in snow/ice) as if it keeps cutting the engine power you'll never go anywhere! I've looked through all of the computer in the car and nothing what so ever (Rather silly of them to do that mind you!). I probably will never need to switch it off but it's nice to know I can just incase that helps me get out of a situation.

Just make sure you've told your Insurers that you've fitted a modification to enable you to disable a safety critical system on your car....
:T:rotfl:

andrew-the-cat

For those of you unfamiliar with the safety systems fitted to your cars, here's a basic breakdown of what they do:

ABS - anti-lock braking system - in emergency braking situations where enough brake pressure is applied to cause the wheels to 'lock up', a computer takes over and rapidly pulses the brakes on each wheel individually. The ideal amount of turning force between the tyre and the road is around 11%, as this allows the car to decelerate very rapidly but also retains enough grip for the car to be steered. You may have never experienced ABS unless you have had to brake very hard before, it's more easy to activate in the wet due to the lesser amount of grip, or on snow and ice due to the severely reduced traction. You can tell when ABS is in operation by the pulsating feel of the brake pedal, and there is also a characteristic noise of the ABS pump. On a dry road you may also hear some rapid chirping as the tyres skid and then turn again. Don't be alarmed...if you need to stop in a hurry then hold the brake pedal down as hard as you can, ABS will take care of everything. Remember ABS may not stop you more quickly, its primary objective is to allow you to steer while braking.

TCS - traction control system - may have different names or acronyms depending on manufacturer - uses the wheel speed sensors of the ABS to detect when one or more wheels is spinning significantly faster than other wheels (slipping). Uses various methods of preventing this such as closing the throttle, actuating a flap in the air intake to prevent air entering the engine, retarding the spark plugs, retarding the fuel pump, or other. Your car may even use a combination of these methods. On some newer systems on two wheel drive cars, if only one of the drive wheels is spinning the traction control system may use the ABS to apply the brake on the spinning wheel only. Due to the way differentials work, this has the effect of causing the non-slipping wheel (which has better grip) to spin more, which can be very helpful if one of your driving wheels is on a high traction surface like tarmac and the other is on a very low traction surface such as an icy drain cover. It's easy to tell when traction control is active as you'll normally get some sort of flashing warning light on your instrument panel, as well as a momentary lack of power. TCS will only activate while you are accelerating, and since wheelspin in a front wheel drive car has no real ill effect other than ruining your tyres, it is more for rear wheel drive cars which can fishtail if you try to accelerate too hard. In vehicles fitted with TCS, there will normally be a button or some other way of temporarily disabling the system in situations where wheelspin would be desired, such as trying to move off in snow, or on a dynamometer.

ESP - electronic stability program - also comes under a load of different names depending on manufacturer but they all use the equipment and technology from Bosch so they all do the same thing. ESP is just an evolution of ABS and TCS which adds more sensors - steering angle, lateral acceleration, yaw rate etc. The primary purpose of ESP is to prevent understeer and oversteer during critical manoeuvres. In a simple sense...ABS helps you stop a car. TCS helps you get a car going. ESP helps you steer the car. When ESP detects that the car is not going in the direction that the driver intends for it to go (eg it is understeering or oversteering), it will apply the brakes on individual wheels in order to 'steer' the car where the driver is trying to go. It is designed for emergency avoidance manoeuvres, such as suddenly swerving to one side and then back to where you originally were. In normal conditions an unprepared driver would lose control of the vehicle when attempting to do this, due to the sudden huge change in forces, and in some cases the car might even roll over. While most people will never experience ESP while driving, it's a good idea to try it out in a large, open space so you know what to expect. Again it's easier to activate in the wet due to reduced grip. In my old car (without ESP) I managed to spin it through 180 degrees just by taking my foot off the accelerator while going round a big roundabout too fast. While I knew that the car might get a little bit loose during this I did not expect to be facing the other way. Thankfully it was at 2am with no other cars around. In my current car (with ESP) I have thrown it left and right steering hard from side to side and the car refuses to lose control. ESP equipped cars will normally have a button to temporarily turn it off. In most cars this will also turn the traction control off. Some newer Volkswagens will only let you turn off traction control, ESP stays on all the time (personally unless you intend to drive on a race track, I think this is for the best). Be warned that if you deactivate ESP and then have an accident, your insurance company may refuse to pay out because you disabled a safety system which has been proven to save lives.

Now watch these videos.

The advantages of ABS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSqGPyWroes

ABS, TCS and ESP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Y6z7cXxEE

Fifth Gear testing ABS, TCS and ESP on snow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3m24bjkfg0

adamc260

andrew-the-cat wrote: »

Be warned that if you deactivate ESP and then have an accident, your insurance company may refuse to pay out because you disabled a safety system which has been proven to save lives.

I've worked in Insurance for a while including Total Loss/Liability and never in my life heard that... There's no way the Insurers can categorically say the incident would not of occured had the ESP been switched on nor can I see anything in the policy booklet stating 'Should you switch ESP off we may not pay out on your claim'.

andrew-the-cat

If someone was in a crash and claimed for personal injury but they weren't wearing a seat belt, would they pay out?

andy8442

It's quite simple really. ONLY switch it off when going up hill in snow/ice where you need to maintain momentum.The rest of the time LEAVE IT ON.

Simples.

50Twuncle

andrew-the-cat wrote: »

For those of you unfamiliar with the safety systems fitted to your cars, here's a basic breakdown of what they do:

ABS - anti-lock braking system - in emergency braking situations where enough brake pressure is applied to cause the wheels to 'lock up', a computer takes over and rapidly pulses the brakes on each wheel individually. The ideal amount of turning force between the tyre and the road is around 11%, as this allows the car to decelerate very rapidly but also retains enough grip for the car to be steered. You may have never experienced ABS unless you have had to brake very hard before, it's more easy to activate in the wet due to the lesser amount of grip, or on snow and ice due to the severely reduced traction. You can tell when ABS is in operation by the pulsating feel of the brake pedal, and there is also a characteristic noise of the ABS pump. On a dry road you may also hear some rapid chirping as the tyres skid and then turn again. Don't be alarmed...if you need to stop in a hurry then hold the brake pedal down as hard as you can, ABS will take care of everything. Remember ABS may not stop you more quickly, its primary objective is to allow you to steer while braking.

TCS - traction control system - may have different names or acronyms depending on manufacturer - uses the wheel speed sensors of the ABS to detect when one or more wheels is spinning significantly faster than other wheels (slipping). Uses various methods of preventing this such as closing the throttle, actuating a flap in the air intake to prevent air entering the engine, retarding the spark plugs, retarding the fuel pump, or other. Your car may even use a combination of these methods. On some newer systems on two wheel drive cars, if only one of the drive wheels is spinning the traction control system may use the ABS to apply the brake on the spinning wheel only. Due to the way differentials work, this has the effect of causing the non-slipping wheel (which has better grip) to spin more, which can be very helpful if one of your driving wheels is on a high traction surface like tarmac and the other is on a very low traction surface such as an icy drain cover. It's easy to tell when traction control is active as you'll normally get some sort of flashing warning light on your instrument panel, as well as a momentary lack of power. TCS will only activate while you are accelerating, and since wheelspin in a front wheel drive car has no real ill effect other than ruining your tyres, it is more for rear wheel drive cars which can fishtail if you try to accelerate too hard. In vehicles fitted with TCS, there will normally be a button or some other way of temporarily disabling the system in situations where wheelspin would be desired, such as trying to move off in snow, or on a dynamometer.

ESP - electronic stability program - also comes under a load of different names depending on manufacturer but they all use the equipment and technology from Bosch so they all do the same thing. ESP is just an evolution of ABS and TCS which adds more sensors - steering angle, lateral acceleration, yaw rate etc. The primary purpose of ESP is to prevent understeer and oversteer during critical manoeuvres. In a simple sense...ABS helps you stop a car. TCS helps you get a car going. ESP helps you steer the car. When ESP detects that the car is not going in the direction that the driver intends for it to go (eg it is understeering or oversteering), it will apply the brakes on individual wheels in order to 'steer' the car where the driver is trying to go. It is designed for emergency avoidance manoeuvres, such as suddenly swerving to one side and then back to where you originally were. In normal conditions an unprepared driver would lose control of the vehicle when attempting to do this, due to the sudden huge change in forces, and in some cases the car might even roll over. While most people will never experience ESP while driving, it's a good idea to try it out in a large, open space so you know what to expect. Again it's easier to activate in the wet due to reduced grip. In my old car (without ESP) I managed to spin it through 180 degrees just by taking my foot off the accelerator while going round a big roundabout too fast. While I knew that the car might get a little bit loose during this I did not expect to be facing the other way. Thankfully it was at 2am with no other cars around. In my current car (with ESP) I have thrown it left and right steering hard from side to side and the car refuses to lose control. ESP equipped cars will normally have a button to temporarily turn it off. In most cars this will also turn the traction control off. Some newer Volkswagens will only let you turn off traction control, ESP stays on all the time (personally unless you intend to drive on a race track, I think this is for the best). Be warned that if you deactivate ESP and then have an accident, your insurance company may refuse to pay out because you disabled a safety system which has been proven to save lives.

Now watch these videos.

The advantages of ABS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSqGPyWroes

ABS, TCS and ESP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Y6z7cXxEE

Fifth Gear testing ABS, TCS and ESP on snow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3m24bjkfg0

Thanks - a good write up

Kilty_2

Weird_Nev wrote: »

safety critical system

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Since when was TC/ESP "safety critical" ?

Are people without it falling off the road regularly?

50Twuncle

Kilty wrote: »

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Since when was TC/ESP "safety critical" ?

Are people without it falling off the road regularly?

What is wrong with safety devices being fitted to cars ?
When I started driving (over 30 years ago) - seat belts were an option - and as for ABS (Mercs were just about unique in having that) - Traction Control was the realm of Racing cars ( LCD) - any more (ESP) was totally unheard of....
I am sure that many lives have been saved with them.......
So what's your gripe with these safety aids ?

adamc260

andrew-the-cat wrote: »

If someone was in a crash and claimed for personal injury but they weren't wearing a seat belt, would they pay out?

Yup, I've seen those claims being paid out. I've seen claims paid out with no MOT on a vehicle so in effect it's not "roadworthy".. doesn't stop a pay out though.