Debate House Prices


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London statistics on worklessness

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  • geneer wrote: »
    This post has been sponsored by the The Daily Mail.


    How do you explain it then?
  • olly300
    olly300 Posts: 14,738 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 27 December 2011 at 4:40PM
    How do you explain it then?

    Depending whose figures you are using - and I can't see the small print around the figures "economically inactive" generally includes:
    1. Students in full-time education over 18 most of whom will be undergraduate degree students. Some of these will have part-time jobs but students on full-time courses aren't included in unemployment figures.
    2. People who have retired for medical reasons, or early voluntary - who are working age so they don't get a state pension etc.
    3. Stay at home mothers who are supported by their working partners. (Though there are now more and more fathers taking that role.)
    4. Non-working single parents who rely on state benefits. (It's cheaper for the government to keep them at home then to get them into working full-time and helping with childcare.)
    5. People claiming unemployment benefits.
    6. People claiming the various disability benefits and not working.
    7. People claiming carers allowance and not working outside the home.
    8. People who don't work,don't claim any benefits and can afford to live on savings/inheritance.

    Apart from 5, who aren't all long term unemployed, what is your issue with the rest of these groups?
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic :p

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
  • olly300
    olly300 Posts: 14,738 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    dlk wrote: »
    It's the expense of London that leads to these figures. Most working people couldn't afford London rents whilst if you don't work you simply have your rent paid for you. London now consists of the extremely well off and the economically inactive with no real in between as how would a £25000pa worker afford to live in London?

    Have you ever heard of the term "working poor"?

    Most of housing benefit payments in London go to subsidise the rent of those who are working.

    BTW there are people who lived in London and brought their properties before the last housing boom. This means their mortgage repayments are very low i.e. less than £100 a month or non-existent so they can survive on low pay in the capital.
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic :p

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
  • jfh7gwa
    jfh7gwa Posts: 450 Forumite
    Olly, I was just going to point out the working poor issue that dlk hasn't taken into account - far too many people seem to be ignorant of this aspect of living in an expensive area of the country yet earning an amount that's on the cusp of what would get you any additional help (stuff like commuting costs, help with optical/dentist/prescription costs, etc).
  • olly300
    olly300 Posts: 14,738 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    jfh7gwa wrote: »
    Olly, I was just going to point out the working poor issue that dlk hasn't taken into account - far too many people seem to be ignorant of this aspect of living in an expensive area of the country yet earning an amount that's on the cusp of what would get you any additional help (stuff like commuting costs, help with optical/dentist/prescription costs, etc).

    It's slightly worse for people on the London border who fall into one of the home counties. Lots of them get to pay London prices for things but have to pay more to travel i.e.bus fares.

    I think it's generally caused by one big issue in this country - that no-one talks to each other about wages.

    If they did the media and the uber-rich politicians wouldn't be able to come out with the sh*t they do.
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic :p

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
  • drc
    drc Posts: 2,057 Forumite
    jfh7gwa wrote: »
    Olly, I was just going to point out the working poor issue that dlk hasn't taken into account - far too many people seem to be ignorant of this aspect of living in an expensive area of the country yet earning an amount that's on the cusp of what would get you any additional help (stuff like commuting costs, help with optical/dentist/prescription costs, etc).

    Hmm. Not sure if I would class them as "poor" if they are having their expensive London rent paid for them. They are actually getting a perk that they don't have to pay for. I doubt that what they pay in tax or NI makes up for the subsidies the working poor get in housing/council tax benefits/tax credits (and yes, the low paid are entitled to these benefits so they are on an even keel with the better off workers). Surely it's up to employers to pay London wages rather than other taxpayers subsidise those on low wages to live in areas they cannot afford?
  • olly300
    olly300 Posts: 14,738 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    They are all East European.
    Not in my local fast food outlets.

    They all look like students and are many ethnicities.
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic :p

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
  • ruggedtoast
    ruggedtoast Posts: 9,819 Forumite
    There are areas of London like Harlesden and Tower Hamlets where the unemployment rate is 70% or higher. More "Londoners" arrive every month into these areas and add to the deficit.

    In East London a lot of the unemployed are women who are trapped due to illiteracy and inability to speak English. Many of them want to study and work but can't as their families won't let them. This problem is only going to get worse as the council becomes less democractic.

    A lot of Londoners are trapped in the benefits trap as well, where they would be worse off working. London is just failing as a city at the moment, it doesn't really accommodate anyone satisfactorily. The people who want to live in a ghetto resent the amount they are forced to integrate, those who want to integrate can't escape the ghettos. The poor can't afford to work, the middle classes all want to leave.

    What a mess.
  • ILW
    ILW Posts: 18,333 Forumite
    Could the answer be to cut all housing benefit drastically?
    Any employer will be forced to pay higher rates if they wish to trade in London.
    If someone is unemployed it does not matter where they live.
  • olly300
    olly300 Posts: 14,738 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    ILW wrote: »
    Could the answer be to cut all housing benefit drastically?
    Any employer will be forced to pay higher rates if they wish to trade in London.
    Doesn't help.

    Employers will just use illegal immigrants with false papers if it saves them money. Yes they will get fined up to £10K per employee if they get caught but they bet on their chances of being caught being small and saving more than that in wages.
    ILW wrote: »
    If someone is unemployed it does not matter where they live.
    Most people in the London and SE aren't long term unemployed but short term unemployed so forcing them to move doesn't help.
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic :p

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
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