£48 fine for 'Fare Evasion' - Advice?

Livingthedream

DWatts wrote: »

Yes when I was looking at Penalty Fares I found that Parson Street wasn't a penalty fare area. I actually figured I was just being put down to pay the fare at a later date, which is why I didn't really question it at the time.

The normal procedure for what you described is that you get a Unpaid fare notice, if you don't pay then you get the threatening letter plus Admin fees or if the Inspector thinks your a fare evader, you get cautioned, identity confirmed then a letter of intention to prosecution.

DWatts wrote: »

I got nothing from the inspector in terms of paperwork. He took down details from my provisional license (my name, the number from it, my address and telephone number), said something about the full fare, and left. There wasn't a mention of anything else (such as a caution).

And what you described there shows that the correct procedure wasn't followed, but it would be hard to prove in a court, because it would be your word against his and the byelaw offence is a strict liability offence which doesn't require it anyway. But in a letter of appeal you could ask to sight a copy of the Unpaid fare notice or the inspector's MG11 if neither of these can be produced the appeal might be upheld.

Either way you won't go to court until the appeal is either upheld or declined and not paid. If you do appeal make sure you send the letter recorded.

DWatts wrote: »

Thanks for the link though - I'll have a try there too.

Make sure you tell them all the info ie no caution and no Unpaid fare notice.

DWatts

Livingthedream wrote: »

The normal procedure for what you described is that you get a Unpaid fare notice, if you don't pay then you get the threatening letter plus Admin fees or if the Inspector thinks your a fare evader, you get cautioned, identity confirmed then a letter of intention to prosecution.

This would make sense, and what I (perhaps stupidly) presumed I would get. I was and am happy to pay the fare - a bit annoyed about paying the full fare mind you - but it's the £40 for 'admin' that they haven't had to do that gets me.

Livingthedream wrote: »

And what you described there shows that the correct procedure wasn't followed, but it would be hard to prove in a court, because it would be your word against his and the byelaw offence is a strict liability offence which doesn't require it anyway. But in a letter of appeal you could ask to sight a copy of the Unpaid fare notice or the inspector's MG11 if neither of these can be produced the appeal might be upheld.

Interesting, I'll make sure to detail exactly what happened in any letter to them then. Even if it's my word against his, it's something to go on.

Livingthedream wrote: »

Either way you won't go to court until the appeal is either upheld or declined and not paid. If you do appeal make sure you send the letter recorded.

I'll definitely do that - I've had too many problems with my letters to companies going 'missing'. If the normal procedure is I appeal, they accept/decline my appeal and then I still pay this fine, then I'm ok with that. I just don't want to appeal it and receive a letter saying "We decline and we'll see you in court."

tripled

Are your Visa cards the nobbled ones, they used to be branded Electron? If so they don't work on trains and other places where they can't be authorised electronically. I'd recommend you ask for help over at http://www.railforums.co.uk/index.php, there are people in the industry that use those forums and will be able to give you the best advice.

DUTR

Why didn't you start swearing at the train manager until the big man ejected you from the train, with the other passengers applauding? Then you could have ran to the press, get let off and sued the big man.

DWatts

Not sure about them being nobbled ones, I haven't had them that long - but they both work on trains. I know because I used the Barclaycard earlier today, and the Llyods debit card yesterday. So I'm not sure why they didn't work with the card reader.

DUTR wrote: »

Why didn't you start swearing at the train manager until the big man ejected you from the train, with the other passengers applauding? Then you could have ran to the press, get let off and sued the big man.

Had I seen the video by then maybe I could've adopted that tactic!

Livingthedream

DWatts wrote: »

I just don't want to appeal it and receive a letter saying "We decline and we'll see you in court."

No it will be a 'Sorry but on further looking at you case we've decide to decline your appeal....' but you'll get some reasonable time to pay it. One last bit of advice; it's the Xmas/New Year holiday/party time so don't expect to get a reply until at least 5th Jan.

As to letter, keep it professional and don't wind them up.

Good Luck.

DWatts

Thanks! I'm just curious about what you said earlier:

Livingthedream wrote: »

There is a set procedure to follow to evoke this Act or byelaw and it doesn't look like it this has happened or we haven't been told the full story.

Could you elaborate on what this set procedure is (or where I can find information regarding it?)

The 1889 regulations don't seem to apply to me anyway (from my understanding), unless they can find an intent on my part to avoid fare. Given that I attempted to make payment with multiple valid cards I would argue they could not do that.

Strider590

Sounds like somebody gets a Christmas bonus if they meet their fine target's.

tarden

target's

Fine example of the Grocer's apostrophe

Livingthedream

DWatts wrote: »

Thanks! I'm just curious about what you said earlier:

I can't really add any more than Old-Codja has posted on your other thread on the CAG (trains,tubes &Bus) Forum.

I would follow his advice to the letter, as you can guess from the standard of advice from his and other posters' replies on that forum their in the industry (Revenue/Prosecutions side) so they know what their taking about.