Drove without insurance

Mark_Hewitt

I'd tend to agree with the above posters that the 3rd party basis of the insurance can't be invalidated, and hence you can't be charged with driving without insurance.

There's lots of talk of 'invalidating insurance' but it's pretty hard to do, I mean you could be driving the wrong way up the motorway at 100mph whilst 10 times over the drink drive limit, with bald tyres but it still wouldn't absolve the insurance company of their liability to third parties.

HappyMJ

wonn wrote: »

Assuming you aren't all professionals and experts with loads of time you want to spend on helping me, is there anywhere/one you could direct me to so that I can find out my grounds for sure on this? Like I say, this is really appreciated.

Really great forum, this. Like I say, I don't mind doing the right thing if I can just know what it is, but when there are large companies and well-briefed people setting out to bamboozle you when you're low, people like you are wonderful and faith-inspiring.

Why are you worried? Have you actually been charged? If you are charged then get a solicitor. Or you can speak to a solicitor now who has knowledge of road laws.

Notmyrealname

wonn wrote: »

Basically, what is the upshot of this? What do you think I should do? I think there's loads of circumstantial evidence and character history to show none of this was deliberate, but still. I don't know whether self-reporting it will cause more trouble than it's worth. In as far as I'm lucky enough to do what the insurance cover would have done anyway, it's all's well that ends well (in fact, I already have done so and more of course in giving them what I felt I had to). Could I anonymously/off the record discuss it with a police officer I've already met through this incident and trust as being a good man?

You have done everything you need to do. Circumstantial and character history is of absolutely no consequence whatsoever. No insurance is an absolute offence, either you are or you are not. The only time it isn't is if you are an employee of a company and have rise to believe that you were insured in a company vehicle.

I don't want to 'automatically' lose my licence and pay a large fine and have all this put on my record. My finances are already tight. The long story is an extremely complex one in which extremely bad fortune has compounded the mistake I've made. In as far as the idea of all this is horrifying to me and would never have meant to do it in the first place, I don't think I need to be punished as a deterrent for the future, especially not so severely. All the same - or more to the point the evidence that I already know the lesson is that - I realise the law is quite simple and I have broken it. Can anyone advise me? Can any discretion be applied?

As I said, discretion cannot be applied because it is an absolute offence.

You will be prosecuted if it comes to light which it may or may not do depending on how vigilant the Police were because at the time the offence was reported the MIB would show you having cover even though it was subsequently withdrawn so it could end up being no further action required.

HOWEVER You WILL find that the insurance company will sue you for anything they pay out to the third party. Assuming they don't, any claims by the third party will be made against you. That is not just limited to damage but also personal injury claims and loss of earnings etc - it can rack up to £10,000s real quick if they go to one of these claims companies. Even if the third party was uninsured it does not stop them making a claim against you.

And then there's the people who were selling the vehicle you test drove. They'll be wanting a chunk of money too.

This is all going to potentially turn out very very costly simply because of not reading the terms and conditions of the policy.

Believe me, being prosecuted for no insurance is the least of your worries at the moment. It is also likely to be the least costly.

Notmyrealname

HappyMJ wrote: »

You had insurance for the 24 hours that you took out in good faith (except for missing a fine point in section 12 subsection 6 Alpha)...What's the problem? If they accepted your proposal then you are covered for the compulsory third party risks whether what you said was the exact truth or not.

The OP didn't read the small print. The fact they accepted the proposal is irrelevant as the OP is disqualified by the fact they haven't held a licence long enough.

(except for missing a fine point in section 12 subsection 6 Alpha)

Anything other than full compliance is a reason for voiding the cover, no matter how fine the point.

wonn

HappyMJ wrote: »

Why are you worried? Have you actually been charged? If you are charged then get a solicitor. Or you can speak to a solicitor now who has knowledge of road laws.

No but certainly being threatened with it by said garage.

HappyMJ

Notmyrealname wrote: »

As I said, discretion cannot be applied because it is an absolute offence.

You will be prosecuted if it comes to light which it may or may not do depending on how vigilant the Police were because at the time the offence was reported the MIB would show you having cover even though it was subsequently withdrawn so it could end up being no further action required.

I have been charged with driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence before i.e no licence. I had insurance on the car in question which of course would have been invalidated had the insurance company known but I was not charged with driving without insurance by the CPS even though I gave the police the documents for it. It was never even mentioned they just went on about how I didn't have a valid licence... Why? The penalty for no insurance 6-8 points would have been much greater than driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence 3-6 points. You are saying that discretion cannot be applied when it was in my case. Even the solicitor didn't even mention it as anything serious.

I wasn't actually driving so the charge ended up being withdrawn in the end but I was eventually convicted of being in charge of a vehicle 10 points...

wonn wrote: »

No but certainly being threatened with it by said garage.

Ignore the garage. They will want their costs recovered though so they may take you to court to enforce them. You can choose to defend that. It's a civil claim so nothing too serious.

wonn

Notmyrealname wrote: »

HOWEVER You WILL find that the insurance company will sue you for anything they pay out to the third party. Assuming they don't, any claims by the third party will be made against you. That is not just limited to damage but also personal injury claims and loss of earnings etc - it can rack up to £10,000s real quick if they go to one of these claims companies. Even if the third party was uninsured it does not stop them making a claim against you.

And then there's the people who were selling the vehicle you test drove. They'll be wanting a chunk of money too.

This is all going to potentially turn out very very costly simply because of not reading the terms and conditions of the policy.

Believe me, being prosecuted for no insurance is the least of your worries at the moment. It is also likely to be the least costly.

There's no compensable injury to man or goods beyond the vehicle I was driving, which was owned by the garage. So no concerns on that kind of score.

As it happens, the cost of repairing the damage to the vehicle ought to be 'relatively' low, the only concerns are over the garage manipulating any assessment. As I say, they were threatening to carry out unnecessary repairs, whacking on star-spangled thingamybobs and sticking it all on the bill. I also suspect they worsened the damage for good measure (at least I have video evidence of how it was when I last saw it). In terms of genuine costs, we could be talking as little as £250 here, but they're trying to suggest 10 times that figure, plus fantasy 'damage to the intrinsic value of the vehicle'.

Thinking about it, tentatively I'm prepared to say I don't mind if the insurer's would want to sue me for anything they did have to pay, so long as within the road traffic act I was actually an insured driver. Not least because the excess on the policy was high, meaning even if they were 'covering it', my excess ought to cover it anyway, meaning no loss to them. As I say, this isn't exactly about worming out of genuine financial costs to myself.

Beyond this, it's occurred to me, I suppose the vehicle, being owned by the garage, is actually a third party's concern? And therefore covered by the insurance after all? As I say, purely hypothetically, and if NMRM is right then I may not want them to have to cover it, of course.

Is there anything legally enforcible about claims having to be submitted in writing? Because the insurers don't make reference to it in their claims process, have never asked for it etc. But they have received written communication from the garage, I believe, and I still have time to do something myself if necessary.

HappyMJ

You won't be able to claim from the policy you had as you have admitted it wasn't valid so you will have to cover the costs yourself. So no need to submit any claim now just pay for the damage or buy the vehicle and fix it yourself and sell it.

Relatively low doesn't mean £250 that's not much. It could easily cost much more for a you might think is a very minor bump.

Have they given you a quote to fix it? Can you get an independant assesment of the damage?

wonn

HappyMJ wrote: »

You won't be able to claim from the policy you had as you have admitted it wasn't valid so you will have to cover the costs yourself. So no need to submit any claim now just pay for the damage or buy the vehicle and fix it yourself and sell it.

Relatively low doesn't mean £250 that's not much. It could easily cost much more for a you might think is a very minor bump.

Have they given you a quote to fix it? Can you get an independant assesment of the damage?

The 'relatively low' quote came from me, just acknowledging that that is still a sad amount of money to lose. On the night they themselves told me it would be perhaps between £300 and £500, certainly 'no more than £500', before all kinds kicked off when they realised I wasn't going to give them everything outright. They gave various assessments of what brand new parts would cost which have since been contradicted by official retailers offering said parts at full market rates. So I now believe that even if there was terrible damage to things that hadn't appeared so bad, it still ought not be too terrible. Furthermore I've had several (speculative, admittedly) quotes from people who can repair the damage who have viewed the images I took and have experience of such incidents.

Due to the garage's attitude, I'm not sure if I can get access to the vehicle in order to properly assess it and repair it at my cost. They have been refusing to communicate with me, and I believe are happy to just hang on to the money they did get. But I do have a little bit of cause for optimism on that score.

colino

I know it is hard to be objective when you are in the middle of it, but take a breath and think about it.
Insurance co. will not get involved, you, by mistake, invalidated that insurance by answering a specific question incorrectly.
You have done material damage to someones elses goods, why should they be at a loss?
If you get away from this by simply agreeing (in writing) with the garage to a specific sum in full and final settlement for the damages I think that will be your best solution. >£500 outlay might be a bargain in these circumstances.
Insurance co. are unlikely do do anything legal, they will be happy they dodged a bullet and don't have to pay out.
Garage are unlikely do do anything else, they are grumbling, but realistically just want their goods put right.
I'm presuming there is no one else involved/damaged/claiming?