Osborne loses his nerve in the face of Union solidarity

ILW

headoutthesand wrote: »

I earn £14270 per year after working here for 12 years and now at the top of my pay scale. I don't think I earn more than a banker.

I assume you are talking about the chiefs and not the indians when you say that...?

My work place has not replaced any of the 5 staff who have left/retired in the last 2 years. That is not including the fixed term employees who were not kept on at the end of their contract. In the next 6 months 2 part time members of staff will take advantage of the voluntary exit scheme and we have been told that they also will not be replaced.

The upshot is that the work all these people do still has to be done. I work for the courts and our work is getting busier. The staff left behind are just expected to share all the other work between them. I'm sure if the private sector was like this there would be room for negotiations on a small payrise or bonus to acknowledge that. No such luck in the public sector

How many unpaid hours do you work per week?

dunstonh

I must say I somewhat lost the capacity to follow this after your bold claim that people working in administration in local government are paid more than bankers.

The average banker earns less than £20k a year and is closer to £15k a year.

It think you lost your capacity long before you started this thread, let alone when you read my post.

But lets not let actual facts get in the way of atavistic prejudice shall we.

Absolutely, and I thank you for confirming that an administration role role in the public sector is paid more than a similar role in banking.

Every LGPS or LGPA pension I have ever paid into has been match funded by the employer, bringing actual monthly contributions up to more like 20% - 25%.

You do realise that a costing of benefits is not the same as the funding by the employer? It doesnt look like it.

ruggedtoast

dunstonh wrote: »

The average banker earns less than £20k a year and is closer to £15k a year.

It think you lost your capacity long before you started this thread, let alone when you read my post.


Absolutely, and I thank you for confirming that an administration role role in the public sector is paid more than a similar role in banking.



You do realise that a costing of benefits is not the same as the funding by the employer? It doesnt look like it.

Are you basically saying that you are a some kind of "admin banker" and you earn £15k a year? I think you need to have a word with your HR department.

Or maybe you would just like to apply for an entry level job somewhere else and start at the bottom again?

https://careers.lloydsbankinggroup.com/Candidate/VacancyInformation.aspx?VacancyId=32715&source=Indeed

"Funding

Both employees and employers contribute to the LGPS: employees' contributions are fixed, while employers' contributions vary depending on how much is needed to ensure benefits under the Scheme are properly funded.

The Fund Actuary sets each employer's contribution rate as part of the actuarial valuation of each fund's assets and liabilities, which takes place every three years."

http://www.lgps.org.uk/lge/core/page.do?pageId=100438

I suggest you go away and educate yourself, the strength of your opinions seem to be wildly at variance with actual fact.

tartanterra

ruggedtoast wrote: »

They were sustainable two years ago when this was last costed and agreed. Suddenly after two years more of corporate welfare and yet another invasion of a deserty country, they aren't.

The system is in crisis because people have lost faith in what they are being told.

If public sector workers really thought there was no money to pay pensions it would be a different story, but they don't. They think there is a monumental stitch up going on to keep the 1% living in luxury while the 99% toils until they drop.

Its like you've commissioned someone to make pies, then when you go back to get your pies you find they have made one enormous pie for themselves, and handed you one tiny pie. When you complain they shake their head witheringly and tell you that there isn't enough food left to make any more pies and you don't understand basis economics.

People just don't believe it anymore.

Is that really what our Public Servants think?

Lets take the example of a level 4 Officer (OF4) in the Armed Forces (Commander/Lt Colonel/Wing Commander)

An OF4 retiring this year at the age of 54 having completed 30 years service will receive:

A lump sum in excess of £100 000.
An index linked yearly pension of £33 000

These people (and there are currently over 4000 of them serving - I have no idea how many are already in receipt of their pension) realise they are onto a good thing and would be unlikely to receive anything like this in the private sector.

I'm sure someone better than me will be able to calculate how big a pension fund you would have to accrue to receive this level of pension in the private sector, but you get the picture.

Public Service pensions were excellent before the changes and they remain excellent (and something most people can only dream of) after the changes.

Your constant "woe is me" isn't really cutting any sympathy with the majority of people who have no access to pensions like this.

Coincidentally, I used the Armed Forces as an example as I myself am in receipt of an Armed Forces pension and realise how lucky I am.
Working in the construction industry now, I actually receive more through my pension (and I wasn't a commissioned Officer!) than many are able to earn at the moment. It's certainly a subject I don't mention at work when I see how much others are struggling (and paying tax to fund my pension payments).

Do I think I have earned a pension?
Yes. My life wasn't my own for 24 years, I've been shot at and bombed, and spent almost half of that time at 48 hours notice to go anywhere in the world.

Do I think my pension is too generous?
Looking around my colleagues in the private sector, most definitely - Yes.

Ironically, I am the only person at my company who can afford to save into a private pension at the moment.

ruggedtoast

tartanterra wrote: »

Is that really what our Public Servants think?

Lets take the example of a level 4 Officer (OF4) in the Armed Forces (Commander/Lt Colonel/Wing Commander)

An OF4 retiring this year at the age of 54 having completed 30 years service will receive:

A lump sum in excess of £100 000.
An index linked yearly pension of £33 000

These people (and there are currently over 4000 of them serving - I have no idea how many are already in receipt of their pension) realise they are onto a good thing and would be unlikely to receive anything like this in the private sector.

I'm sure someone better than me will be able to calculate how big a pension fund you would have to accrue to receive this level of pension in the private sector, but you get the picture.

Public Service pensions were excellent before the changes and they remain excellent (and something most people can only dream of) after the changes.

Your constant "woe is me" isn't really cutting any sympathy with the majority of people who have no access to pensions like this.

Coincidentally, I used the Armed Forces as an example as I myself am in receipt of an Armed Forces pension and realise how lucky I am.
Working in the construction industry now, I actually receive more through my pension (and I wasn't a commissioned Officer!) than many are able to earn at the moment. It's certainly a subject I don't mention at work when I see how much others are struggling (and paying tax to fund my pension payments).

Do I think I have earned a pension?
Yes. My life wasn't my own for 24 years, I've been shot at and bombed, and spent almost half of that time at 48 hours notice to go anywhere in the world.

Do I think my pension is too generous?
Looking around my colleagues in the private sector, most definitely - Yes.

Ironically, I am the only person at my company who can afford to save into a private pension at the moment.

If you think your pension is too generous then share it with someone else.

Otherwise, as you've benefitted handsomely from a public sector pension yourself it seems somewhat miserly to begrudge people 30 years away a smaller, less well funded pension, that will involve them having to work much longer than you have.

tartanterra

ruggedtoast wrote: »

If you think your pension is too generous then share it with someone else.

Otherwise, as you've benefitted handsomely from a public sector pension yourself it seems somewhat miserly to begrudge people 30 years away a smaller, less well funded pension, that will involve them having to work much longer than you have.

I see you missed the point entirely.

You must be getting a bit dizzy up there on righteous mountain.

Andy_L

tartanterra wrote: »

Lets take the example of a level 4 Officer (OF4) in the Armed Forces (Commander/Lt Colonel/Wing Commander)

An OF4 retiring this year at the age of 54 having completed 30 years service will receive:

A lump sum in excess of £100 000.
An index linked yearly pension of £33 000

These people (and there are currently over 4000 of them serving - I have no idea how many are already in receipt of their pension) realise they are onto a good thing and would be unlikely to receive anything like this in the private sector.

They are also unlikely to receive anything like that in the wider Public Sector. The armed forces schems is about the 3rd best going (after Judges and the individual schemes for the PM & Speaker of the House)

Andy_L

ILW wrote: »

How many unpaid hours do you work per week?

The only study I've seen found no significant difference between unpaid hours in Private vs Public sector jobs except in health & education where the public sector did more (although that may just be the effect of almost all jobs in those areas being public sector)

http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2008/212017945348.html

ruggedtoast

Andy_L wrote: »

The only study I've seen found no significant difference between unpaid hours in Private vs Public sector jobs except in health & education where the public sector did more (although that may just be the effect of almost all jobs in those areas being public sector)

http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2008/212017945348.html

Oh gosh, don't present them with facts, they don't really do facts, just knee jerk prejudice.

dunstonh

Are you basically saying that you are a some kind of "admin banker" and you earn £15k a year? I think you need to have a word with your HR department.

Or maybe you would just like to apply for an entry level job somewhere else and start at the bottom again?

Again, thank you for confirming the typical wage range of a bank worker and verifying my figures.

I suggest you go away and educate yourself, the strength of your opinions seem to be wildly at variance with actual fact.

Again, you are not using the correct figures. I suggest you educate yourself rather than criticise those that do know the information.