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Could people REALLY lose all their savings?
Comments
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Glen_Clark wrote: »So how do you separate the undeserving poor from the deserving poor?
Not an easy task, one the present government is trying to tackle. One sad fact is the working poor are subsidising the !!!!less poor who enjoy a far superior lifestyle to the lifestyle of the working poor. A situation soon to change I hope.0 -
Glen_Clark wrote: »So how do you separate the undeserving poor from the deserving poor?
No jobseeker's allowance. No housing benefit. No child benefit. Benefits should benefit the country. Paying teachers' wages benefits the country. Paying doctors benefits the country. Paying construction workers to fill potholes benefits the country.
NMW - 20% to be a street cleaner / binman / insert general job anyone can do, full time, non means tested.
There is no reason to hand money to people to sit around. Why not get useful work out of people, and in addition give them skills to write on a CV, even if it is only "turned up and chucked stuff in bins". It's better than a CV gap.Said Aristippus, “If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.”
Said Diogenes, “Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.”[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]0 -
No jobseeker's allowance. No housing benefit. No child benefit. Benefits should benefit the country. Paying teachers' wages benefits the country. .
If you look on the Benefits section of this website I think you would be amazed how little politicians expect benefit claimants to live on - £5 per day, particularly compared to what they pay themselves (eg Thatcher who claimed £535,000 in 'expenses' for her public engagements over the last 5 years)
Take away their benefits altogether and what happens? Its no coincidence the increase in metal theft, for example, that costs us a lot more than benefit claims would. Estimated at over £1 billion last year, plus court costs, and keeping prisoners in jail at £55,000 per year.“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” --Upton Sinclair0 -
Glen_Clark wrote: »If you look on the Benefits section of this website I think you would be amazed how little politicians expect benefit claimants to live on - £5 per day, particularly compared to what they pay themselves (eg Thatcher who claimed £535,000 in 'expenses' for her public engagements over the last 5 years)
Take away their benefits altogether and what happens? Its no coincidence the increase in metal theft, for example, that costs us a lot more than benefit claims would. Estimated at over £1 billion last year, plus court costs, and keeping prisoners in jail at £55,000 per year.
As I have said, offer jobs to all. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be "run up and down the block" for £5/hr. I don't care.
The point to get across is that it is money that you are working for. The choice should not be between "sit at home, maybe put in a few job apps a week" for £10k pa and grind your bones for £12k pa.
By the way, £1 billion is roughly £17 per UK citizen per year. That's 3 hours at NMW. Do you think that giving every UK citizen £17 would stop metal theft?Said Aristippus, “If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.”
Said Diogenes, “Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.”[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]0 -
By the way, £1 billion is roughly £17 per UK citizen per year. That's 3 hours at NMW. Do you think that giving every UK citizen £17 would stop metal theft?
No because its not every citizen who is nicking metal. Only those who are desperate enough to do it - eg no job and no benefits. Just look at the benefit section of this website and see what happens when they have nothing for food and apply for a crisis loan.
One guy was turned down, went out to rob someone in a park, who turned out to be a spirited little woman who attacked him ferociously, and he killed her. Now he is serving a life sentence costing us £55,000 a year in jail.
And you say just stop their benefits?“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” --Upton Sinclair0 -
Glen_Clark wrote: »No because its not every citizen who is nicking metal. Only those who are desperate enough to do it - eg no job and no benefits. Just look at the benefit section of this website and see what happens when they have nothing for food and apply for a crisis loan.
One guy was turned down, went out to rob someone in a park, who turned out to be a spirited little woman who attacked him ferociously, and he killed her. Now he is serving a life sentence costing us £55,000 a year in jail.
And you say just stop their benefits?
Yes, stop 'their' (mine, yours, most people that aren't on £40k+) benefits and offer them a job for the same money.
We need a safety net for people who lose their job. What we don't need is a reclining armchair.
Do you think I want penniless people wandering around, grabbing anything they can as they have nothing to lose? I'd do the same in that situation. I simply don't think giving people money for nothing is the answer.Said Aristippus, “If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.”
Said Diogenes, “Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.”[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]0 -
Glen_Clark wrote: »No because its not every citizen who is nicking metal. Only those who are desperate enough to do it - eg no job and no benefits. Just look at the benefit section of this website and see what happens when they have nothing for food and apply for a crisis loan.
One guy was turned down, went out to rob someone in a park, who turned out to be a spirited little woman who attacked him ferociously, and he killed her. Now he is serving a life sentence costing us £55,000 a year in jail.
And you say just stop their benefits?
Gleyn I think you are missing Egdgys point. He is not saying stop all benefits, he is saying if people are in a situation where they need benefit they should do compulsary work which I think is a good idea. If most people on JSA were forced to do full time work I think you would find metal theft would drop hugely
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So really we are on the same wavelength.
We need to create more real jobs for everyone, including ex criminals.
Not simply take away benefits.“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” --Upton Sinclair0 -
longleggedhair wrote: »Gleyn I think you are missing Egdgys point. He is not saying stop all benefits, he is saying if people are in a situation where they need benefit they should do compulsary work which I think is a good idea. If most people on JSA were forced to do full time work I think you would find metal theft would drop hugely
Forcing them creates a lot of problems. But I really don't think you would have to force many of them if there were enough real jobs available.“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” --Upton Sinclair0 -
Glen_Clark wrote: »So how do you separate the undeserving poor from the deserving poor?
The deserving poor are those who are unreasonably disadvantaged through no fault of their own. Most people are presumably happy to support these through the welfare state. The undeserving "poor" are disadvantaged through their own ideleness, f e c klessness, and/or irresponsibility. The socialist notion is that the welfare state must support these just as generously, if not more so. This is on the premise that willingness and ability to hold down a job and be self-supporting represents an unfair advantage in life. Those so blessed have a moral obligation to chip in and ensure that the rest enjoy an equivalent standard of living, or preferably a better one.
(Read this quick before the moderator deletes it)No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0
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