Builder Dispute for OAP

glp

Hi,
My 86yr old mother had a damp patch in both bedrooms at ceiling height of approx 1ft sq.. After asking a builder to do the repair he eventually scheduled it to start a couple of weeks ago. Scaffolding was erected on a sunday, 2 levels and only half a (small cottage) gable end.
The following Saturday, i found out about this and at a cost of £2,600 (i live 80 miles away) i thought it sounded expensive. The damp only appears when it has been raining very heavy and the wind is howling in a certain direction. So i phoned the builder to ask what he thought was the problem and how he thought best to repair it and what was involved. In other words, i wanted an approximate breakdown of the costs.
In a nut shell, he was extremely aggressive, shouting why had i phoned him, why had i got involved, it was nothing to do with me, everything was hunky dory before i phoned. I was alarmed at his response and manner so started asking more questions.
These are some of his answers:
Materials involved – loads needed, alot of the costs are in the materials!
Hourly rate – no answer
Daily rate – well, erm, lets say £300, paused a long time, may have to have a labourer with me. At a later phone call, he said i had cost him a days work of £100 !!!
Work guaranteed – no answer
Length of time for job – 4-5 days not sure, the chimney stack needs dropping and i would have to point around it and put the pots back on and fill the van with stone and rubble and dispose of it. He would need to re point approx 3sq mtrs of gable end.
So, i cancelled the job. He hasn’t started the work, only erected the scaffolding. I said i would be dealing with this matter and not to ring or call at my mothers, it has upset her and i don’t want her worrying any more than she already has. He did, demanding money for the scaffolding. I phoned him back and told him i would get on to the local newspapers, and police if he contacted her again.
The fee for the scaffolding he said was £420, then he forgot, it should have been £620. I asked for an invoice so that i could see what was on it, address ect and any other details and it has now come with vat on, at £744. He says there will be a daily charge added if the bill is not paid. We don’t want his scaffolding, he can collect it when he wants, it isn’t even on mums land.
I am going to citizens advice on Monday but any further advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

anotherbaldrick

Contact Trading Standards at the Council and get them involved

McKneff

In all honesty, he will hire the scaffolding, what he charges out for it is another matter.

Same as my husband when he was a painter, he bought the paint, then added 20% on as profit.
I dont think you have any right to see the original invoice from the scaffold company to the builder.

You could ring the scaffold company and as what they would charge for such and such a job.

But I do agree with the other poster, get trading standards involvd, given the age of your mum.
She is at a pretty vulnerable age. Tell her if he contacts her at all to call the police, it is intimidation and
they will do their best to help.

I would have thought the daily rate of £300 was a bit ott, okay if it included the labourer but he said a labourer was extra.

vax2002

what has she signed ?
this is VERY important

welda

Ditto with above post, I'm having same problem with a job done (and paid for) at my own OAP mum. Nothing like the cost you ention, however, this is now with trading standards, numerous infrinments have been made, can't say here at the moment.

BUT please, please contact your mothers local trading standards, also have a word with local police and, if this person contacts your mum, and she feels threatended, have her call police immediately!

Regards.

daggy

If it were me and he'd spoke to my mum in a threatening way, I'd break his legs and chop his f**king hands off... but that's another story

Seriously though, I'm not sure if there's a way to easily record any phone calls he makes to your mum? You could set up a call divert so that all his calls go to you? not sure if it's possible to do that for individual numbers.

£300 per day seems extortionate to me, even with a labourer. I wonder if there is a 'reasonable charge' for labour and scaffolding? The fact that he's changing his prices every time you talk to him may give you a cause for complaint....

Anyway, as other people have said, has she signed anything? Definitely ring TS either way... Also... make it clear that you'll be happy to post some reviews about him on review sites... the internet can destroy a reputation.

skintandfat

He is required to give your mum a 7 day cooling off period

If he hasn't he can't enforce ANY invoice without a court order- which he will be VERY unlikely to get

Get your mother to write to him stating she appoints you as her representative and he should only contact you regarding this matter

You then write requesting an invoice that is full and detailed

Take control

If your mum is bothered about calls she can buy a device called TRUCALL. It filters calls and lets certain ones through

vax2002

what is connect to the other end of the chimney stack ? it is not a gas fire with a flu is it ?
For if it is the flu needs to be matched on the back of the fire, he could kill your mum..

iamcornholio

In context, £2.6k is about half the cost of a complete new re-tile and felt of a typical semi.

Irrespective of what was agreed, the builders charges must be reasonable for the type of work, otherwise they will be unlawful. You are entitled to an itemised bill/quote to see where the money has gone/is going

See the CAB and also speak with the councils Trading Standards team for more advice

As there was an agreement, and as the builder has effectively started the works then there may be a liability to pay something to him. Whether a contract actually exists (singed or not) would be open to interpretation - an excessive quote may make any contract void, but a high quote which is still "reasonable" may mean that a contract exists and you are in breach by cancelling it

If the builder has done some work, then you may like to pay a token sum to cover the scaffold cost - say £200-£400 for now. This will show that you are being reasonable if this dispute escalates

If need be, you could offer to engage an independent surveyor to value the work, and both agree to abide by his findings

daggy

iamcornholio wrote: »

In context, £2.6k is about half the cost of a complete new re-tile and felt of a typical semi.

Irrespective of what was agreed, the builders charges must be reasonable for the type of work, otherwise they will be unlawful. You are entitled to an itemised bill/quote to see where the money has gone/is going

See the CAB and also speak with the councils Trading Standards team for more advice

As there was an agreement, and as the builder has effectively started the works then there may be a liability to pay something to him. Whether a contract actually exists (singed or not) would be open to interpretation - an excessive quote may make any contract void, but a high quote which is still "reasonable" may mean that a contract exists and you are in breach by cancelling it

If the builder has done some work, then you may like to pay a token sum to cover the scaffold cost - say £200-£400 for now. This will show that you are being reasonable if this dispute escalates

If need be, you could offer to engage an independent surveyor to value the work, and both agree to abide by his findings

I think that's very good advice... obviously make sure that any payment is via a recorded and non-disputable method. Bank transfer to a business account would be the best IMO.

glp

Than you all for your help and advice. I will ring Trading Standards tomorrow. My mum didnt sign anything and no work has been done at all, apart from the scaffolding being erected. I did ring the police last friday and they said they couldnt get involved unless the builder had actually threatened violence or damage in any way. As of this morning, the builder has not contacted mum since i told him not to.
How can he charge a daily rate for the scaffolding still there, it is he who isnt taking it back. We are not stopping him at all.
I will let you know the next stage, it might help someone else in the future.
Thanks everyone.