Panel Heaters.

james8_2

Hello,

My girlfriend and I currently rent a 2 bed purpose apartment in Lancashire and currently having a few issues which i hope someone maybe able to make clear.
Before you call me thick I'm new to living alone and dealing with these types of things as I'm a recent graduate.

Basically when we moved in we looked for bloody everything we could to ensure that it was a sound property, and yes it seemed like that until the winter hit us. Throughout the summer the property couldn't get any warmer as its a top floor flat with a lot of these fancy wooden windows (which are crap and let in a draft and have a lot of condensation) and a few velux's (also not very good).

I've since it the winter months and the property has gone from roasty toasty to bloody freezing. Ive learned that we only have panel heaters throughout and with a wooden floor throughout the full apartment, they need to be on (its that cold). Now the property was advertised as economy 7 heating, yet that would only apply to storage heaters, yet since I don't use any electricity at night Ovo energy are giving me a fixed cost price of 11p/kw throughout the day and at night as we were paying 27p/kw during the day and 9p/kw at night, i thought that sounded good!

Anyway's I keep roughly 3 - 4 of these panel heaters on for roughly 7 hours a day - 3 hours in the morning and 4 hours at night. I'm currently sat here freezing as that's what Ive been advised to do as apparently these things cost a lot to run.
I dont use much more energy in the apartment apart from the TV's, lights, cooker, emergen for an hour once a day(as that's the only way to heat the water, yet how much does this cost?) and the washing machine once a week.

I want to know if anyone can tell me if at the end of December / January am i going to receive a sky high bill?
I currently started my direct debit at 48.00 a month but i dont think thats going to be realistic. How much do these panel heaters really cost to run on an 11p/kw tariff? I know theyre not ideal and i know i should move, but ive got xmas coming up, and to be honest i really like the place, i just want to iron out the wrinkles and get a better understanding of them.

Also, my landlords an !!!!!!, so asking for storage heaters, or anything like that is out of the question as we've never heard from him since we moved in. He could be one of these landlords that knocks on the door all the time so i count myself lucky

If anyone can give me a better understanding on these heaters etc and answer some of my questions i would be very grateful.

Cheers.

James

HappyMJ

They cost 11p per hour per kWh used. I'm not sure what you are asking? Gas central heating is usually about 4p per kWh but they are not 100% efficient so use a bit more. My boiler is rated at 15kW per hour for example but when running it cycles on and off to use much less but as it's cheap most people also turn the thermostat up to 21 so it'll cost more than an hour or two of your panel heating set on the freezing low temperature that yours is set at. Storage heating usually costs around 5p per kWh but they tend to release heat all day when you might not want that so you might have to load it up with twice as much energy to get the same heat when you want it.

james8_2

Hi thanks for replying, so basically its exactly what it says on the tin (sorry as i said its new to me) so for the 3 heater for 6 hours im paying 3.96 a day. over the space of a month Jesus that's once heck of a bill! 115in these heaters alone! am i right by saying this, so i am expecting some huge bill at the end of the month.
What about an emergen, how would i go about calculating how much that is costing me per hour?

HappyMJ

james8 wrote: »

Hi thanks for replying, so basically its exactly what it says on the tin (sorry as i said its new to me) so for the 3 heater for 6 hours im paying 3.96 a day. over the space of a month Jesus that's once heck of a bill! 115in these heaters alone! am i right by saying this, so i am expecting some huge bill at the end of the month.
What about an emergen, how would i go about calculating how much that is costing me per hour?

Sort of. Remember the heaters cycle on and off so it'll be less.

Water heating...It'll take a 3kW element about 60 minutes to heat 100 litres of water from 40 degrees to 65 degrees. That will cost you 3 times 11p so 33p per day. The numbers are different depending on how cool the cylinder has got from the day before, how much water you have in the cylinder, how much water you have used, how insulated the cylinder is and how high you heat the water to.

SYNERGY

james8 wrote: »

Hello,

My girlfriend and I currently rent a 2 bed purpose apartment in Lancashire and currently having a few issues which i hope someone maybe able to make clear.
Before you call me thick I'm new to living alone and dealing with these types of things as I'm a recent graduate.

Basically when we moved in we looked for bloody everything we could to ensure that it was a sound property, and yes it seemed like that until the winter hit us. Throughout the summer the property couldn't get any warmer as its a top floor flat with a lot of these fancy wooden windows (which are crap and let in a draft and have a lot of condensation) and a few velux's (also not very good).

I've since it the winter months and the property has gone from roasty toasty to bloody freezing. Ive learned that we only have panel heaters throughout and with a wooden floor throughout the full apartment, they need to be on (its that cold). Now the property was advertised as economy 7 heating, yet that would only apply to storage heaters, yet since I don't use any electricity at night Ovo energy are giving me a fixed cost price of 11p/kw throughout the day and at night as we were paying 27p/kw during the day and 9p/kw at night, i thought that sounded good!

Anyway's I keep roughly 3 - 4 of these panel heaters on for roughly 7 hours a day - 3 hours in the morning and 4 hours at night. I'm currently sat here freezing as that's what Ive been advised to do as apparently these things cost a lot to run.
I dont use much more energy in the apartment apart from the TV's, lights, cooker, emergen for an hour once a day(as that's the only way to heat the water, yet how much does this cost?) and the washing machine once a week.

I want to know if anyone can tell me if at the end of December / January am i going to receive a sky high bill?
I currently started my direct debit at 48.00 a month but i dont think thats going to be realistic. How much do these panel heaters really cost to run on an 11p/kw tariff? I know theyre not ideal and i know i should move, but ive got xmas coming up, and to be honest i really like the place, i just want to iron out the wrinkles and get a better understanding of them.

Also, my landlords an !!!!!!, so asking for storage heaters, or anything like that is out of the question as we've never heard from him since we moved in. He could be one of these landlords that knocks on the door all the time so i count myself lucky

If anyone can give me a better understanding on these heaters etc and answer some of my questions i would be very grateful.

Cheers.

James

As an approximation:

1) Your electricity cost is 11p per KWh, so for every hour you use 1KW it costs you 11p.

2) Say each panel heater is rated at 3KW each. (.33p per panel per hour)

3) Say you use only three of them.

4) They are on for seven hours per day.

5) Due to the heat loss / poor insulation of the flat they are on for the full seven hours, not a usual scenario due to the thermostat switching them off and on, but used as a worse case scenario, then:

Each panel would use approx.

a) 7 x 3x.11 = £2.31 per day ( seven hours)
b) 7 x £2.31 = £16.17 per week.
c) £16.31 x 4 = £64.68 per month.
d) £64.68 x 3 = £194.04 per quarter.

a,b,c and d are presuming a winter quarter when heating has, and is, used as you say for 7 hours per day, every day.

This is for heating only, to this must be added the other electrical consumption. :eek:
As I said, don't panic, the figures are worse case, the panel heaters will switch on and off according to the ambient temperature of the room.

Things to do:

Only use the heaters in the rooms you use most.

Obvious, but not fashionable , wear a few more layers.

An electric blanket and decent duvet is cheaper than heating a bedroom for several hours.

See if you can say knock half an our off both the heating times, ie switch off half an hour earlier.

Keep the doors to the other rooms closed as much as possible.

Go all around the flat feeling and looking for draughts, floors, doors windows etc. then stop the draughts, you don't have to spend a great deal, masking tape, rolled up cloth, newspaper stuffed in gaps won't look pretty but costs little and save a lot.

Thick ceiling to floor curtains, again won't cost a lot if you trawl the charity shops, car boots etc.

Simply using cling film, polythene, or the bought systems to stick on the windows / frames to create a double glazing effect can be cost effective.

In many rooms there is a comfort zone, ie not prone to draughts and the down flow of cold air from windows etc. the room temperature may be approx the same throughout the room but in this spot if feels warmer.

Only boil enough water for a cuppa, not a full kettle.

Wash clothes etc. on a low temp wash.

Have a look at these for ideas.
http://http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/In-your-home/Roofs-floors-walls-and-windows/Draught-proofing

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/ethicallivingblog/2008/may/30/treadlightlydraughtproofthe

Hope this gives you a few ideas.

paceinternet

Synergy wrote
a) 7 x 3x.11 = £2.31 per day ( seven hours)
b) 7 x £2.31 = £16.17 per week.
c) £16.31 x 4 = £64.68 per month.
d) £64.68 x 3 = £194.04 per quarter.

If he has 3 of them on full at 3kw in your worst case example, isn't there another x3 missing from this?
Look at it another way, say it is 60sqm floor area and poorly insulated, he may need 150 watts / sqm which would be 9kw, so worst case he needs 9kw x 7 hrs / day x £0.11 / kw. Equals £6.93 / day plus his other electrical items.

SYNERGY

paceinternet wrote: »

If he has 3 of them on full at 3kw in your worst case example, isn't there another x3 missing from this?
Look at it another way, say it is 60sqm floor area and poorly insulated, he may need 150 watts / sqm which would be 9kw, so worst case he needs 9kw x 7 hrs / day x £0.11 / kw. Equals £6.93 / day plus his other electrical items.

in your worst case example, isn't there another x3 missing from this?

Thanks for that, :beer: I intended to make a note that the example a,b,c, was per panel, so that James8 could work out all the permutations from one panel to all of his panels, which appear to be 4+.

I have edited and added the extra note.

Andy_WSM

SYNERGY wrote: »

in your worst case example, isn't there another x3 missing from this?

Thanks for that, :beer: I intended to make a note that the example a,b,c, was per panel, so that James8 could work out all the permutations from one panel to all of his panels, which appear to be 4+.

I have edited and added the extra note.

All your examples assume the heaters will be running flat out for the full hour. That's quiet unlikely, maybe excepting the first hour. It's more likely the heaters will cycle on & off, using only a percentage of their rated input per hour.

SYNERGY

Andy_WSM wrote: »

All your examples assume the heaters will be running flat out for the full hour. That's quiet unlikely, maybe excepting the first hour. It's more likely the heaters will cycle on & off, using only a percentage of their rated input per hour.

All your examples assume the heaters will be running flat out for the full hour.

True, that is why I stated in my previous post:

5) Due to the heat loss / poor insulation of the flat they are on for the full seven hours, not a usual scenario due to the thermostat switching them off and on, but used as a worse case scenario, then:

Yet again:

As I said, don't panic, the figures are worse case, the panel heaters will switch on and off according to the ambient temperature of the room

macman

james8 wrote: »

Hi thanks for replying, so basically its exactly what it says on the tin (sorry as i said its new to me) so for the 3 heater for 6 hours im paying 3.96 a day. over the space of a month Jesus that's once heck of a bill! 115in these heaters alone! am i right by saying this, so i am expecting some huge bill at the end of the month.
What about an emergen, how would i go about calculating how much that is costing me per hour?

18 hours at 11p per kWh will cost you £1.98 if they are 1kW heaters, twice as much if they are 2kWh heaters. But less if they cycle on and off on the 'stats.
It's an immersion heater, not emergen. Usually rated around 3KW-it will be marked on the rating plate.

Pincher

New Yorkers check the obituaries for vacant apartments.

It ain't easy finding good accomodation.
The good ones get snapped up just like that.
A bit like Heston Blumenthal's Hidden Orange Christmas Pudding.

Secondly, the tenants don't leave, because they know they can't find better without resorting to murder.
All you do is insulate and heat one room until spring, and keep an eye out for good apartments. Try not to kill anyone.

Well done for 11p per kWh.