What's cheaper? Gas or electric?

bengasman

NightSprite wrote: »

I have a Vaillant. Not sure of the model but it heats tap water as well, on demand. No storage. It also has an analogue timer.

That limits it to about 50 options, though I can't think of any of those ( at least not by heart ) that can be legally installed without a roomstat.

NightSprite

bengasman wrote: »

That limits it to about 50 options, though I can't think of any of those ( at least not by heart ) that can be legally installed without a roomstat.

I was going to offer up a picture it seems I can't as I'm newbie here..

Cardew

Here we go again!

Without question new and replacement CH systems must have a room thermostat to comply with regulations.

However many old systems were installed without a room thermostat before the current regulations were introduced - again no point in saying it was a bad idea.

Where I would take issue with you(and I have read your contributions in other websites) is the implication that is illegal not to have a room themostat. That is perhaps not what you are saying, but people might get the idea from your input above.

I have a room thermostat situated in a large hall with a wide staircase leading off. I don't heat the hall and turn the stat to maximum(which is in effect the same as removing it!). I have TRVs on every radiator and a bypass valve and use these to control the temperature in each room.

The reason is that I regularly have 3 reception rooms in use - one with an open fire - and it is impossible to have a compromise solution.

I accept that the pump is running all the time(when heating is on) and the boiler is cycling but it is a price I am prepared to pay. In fact modern pumps are very low consumption - as low as 5w but perhaps 35w is more typical.

bengasman

Cardew wrote: »

However many old systems were installed without a room thermostat before the current regulations were introduced

The requirement for a roomstat has been around for a long time, and the chances that this boiler is that old, are extremely slim.

Cardew wrote: »

Where I would take issue with you(and I have read your contributions in other websites) is the implication that is illegal not to have a room themostat. That is perhaps not what you are saying, but people might get the idea from your input above.

I never said it is illegal not to have a roomstat, neither explicitly, nor implicitly. If you had made the effort to read my post properly before responding to it, you would have realised that.
You can't reasonably hold me responsible for the inability of people to read and understand plain and simple English these days.
It is just typical for the state of the country that people who know little or nothing about the subject, get upset about what others MIGHT misunderstand because they are thick. They then expect those with expertise and an education to dumb down all their communications in order for it to be more easily absorbed by the clueless great unwashed.

Amos47

There's scope for some helpful information here. I'm already more informed just reading the posts so far!

I've quite an old gas CH system and boiler maybe 30 years or more. I'm told it's gravity fed with a Glow Worm 85-100 boiler. I'm looking at replacing/renewing the thing but wanted to give some thought as to whether to stick with gas or go with something else - electricity maybe? The cost of replacing the boiler and associated works is pretty hefty (£4000 odd from BG) but the gas bills are fairly hefty too though on current calculations it would still take 10 years to get my money back.

I can confirm that almost every engineer will have a different opinion about what is and isn't possible. Sometimes contradicting each other to laughable degrees. Some engineers say that the boiler is so simple that it'll go on for years even if not as efficient as modern boilers others (as far back as 10 years ago) say it won't last another year. Do I bite the bullet and go for a full upgrade or are there some clever ideas to maximise what I have (perhaps renewing/adding pumping?) and minimise costs?

Cardew

Amos47 wrote: »

There's scope for some helpful information here. I'm already more informed just reading the posts so far!

I've quite an old gas CH system and boiler maybe 30 years or more. I'm told it's gravity fed with a Glow Worm 85-100 boiler. I'm looking at replacing/renewing the thing but wanted to give some thought as to whether to stick with gas or go with something else - electricity maybe? The cost of replacing the boiler and associated works is pretty hefty (£4000 odd from BG) but the gas bills are fairly hefty too though on current calculations it would still take 10 years to get my money back.

I can confirm that almost every engineer will have a different opinion about what is and isn't possible. Sometimes contradicting each other to laughable degrees. Some engineers say that the boiler is so simple that it'll go on for years even if not as efficient as modern boilers others (as far back as 10 years ago) say it won't last another year. Do I bite the bullet and go for a full upgrade or are there some clever ideas to maximise what I have (perhaps renewing/adding pumping?) and minimise costs?

Welcome to the forum.

Your dilemma has been discussed many times on MSE and the consensus of opinion is that it isn't wise to replace a working system.

There is no question that modern condensing boilers are more efficient - albeit not perhaps as efficient in the 'real world' as makers claim.

The older non-condensing boilers have a simple design and little to go wrong. Not so with modern condensing boilers.

Looking at the economics. The average gas user(16,500kWh pa) will spend around £600. If you save 30%(£180 a year) you will do well - savings will only be on the Tier 2 rate.

If you had to spend £4k the loss of interest alone would be over £100pa; and a lot more paid in interest if you have to borrow the money.

Lots of threads if you do a search.

Pincher

NightSprite wrote: »

OK, I never knew that but can that be done with the current boiler I have? How does that work?

Have a look at these:

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/vaillant-vr81-remote-control-unit--for-vrc430--0020028540/

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/vaillant-vrc430-digital-weather-compensator-0020028520/

Wired is cheaper, but more hassle to run the cable.
I prefer wired, because you never know when you are going to have interference with wireless.

elantan

bengasman wrote: »

The requirement for a roomstat has been around for a long time, and the chances that this boiler is that old, are extremely slim.

.

mine is over 30 years old ... i dont have a thermostat in every room , i have one in my hall at the top of a flight of stairs which happens to be very cold , so if i left it at 20c it would keep the heating on constantly

bengasman

elantan wrote: »

mine is over 30 years old ... i dont have a thermostat in every room , i have one in my hall at the top of a flight of stairs which happens to be very cold , so if i left it at 20c it would keep the heating on constantly

Normal systems only have 1 roomstat.

pothole50

Just found out from my friend that in her rented 3 bed semi there is no room thermostat anywhere, the lounge gets really hot, but the bedrooms are really cold, they have thermostat valves on the bedroom radiators. Is there anything I can do to balance out the heat in the rooms. The lounge has two rads I thought if I turned off the one on the south facing side it might help to balance out the heat in the house. But how do you heat a house without a room thermostat what happens if its cold one day and warm another where could the control for the heating be.