seller has no building regs advice please

seabreeze_3

hi all really need some advice we veiwed a property after looking at loads of rubbish we both liked it made an offer for full asking price and was accepted. We arranged our morgage in principal and the surveyer has been. The house has a loft conversion, asked the seller who did the conversion etc local builder. All seemed to be going well now our surveyer/lender wants the building regs no problem we think turns out the seller does not have them . All i really want to know is how difficult is it to get them on something that is already done is it worth cutting our losses now and just lose the 350 for the surveyer and start looking for another property.
We have been living with my parents since october when we completed and sold our other house our life is in storage this is just so fustrating any advice would be appreciated thanks all :mad: :mad:

Bossyboots

Will your lender accept an indemnity policy against any loss of value if you subsequently find a problem with the loft conversion and it has to be restored to its original state.

This is also an issue for you to consider as without building regulations or planning permission, you don't know that this loft has been constructed properly. You need to consider whether you want to take this risk or ask for an indemnity policy in case you end up with a heap of work to do on it.

I am not sure there is even such a policy, but its the only thing I can think of that might prevent you losing the property. If you can't do this, then I would really think twice about it. You don't know what corners the builder might have cut if the work wasn't going to be checked out.

seabreeze_3

spoken to the seller yesterday and he is contacting the builder who carried out the conversion we are waiting for the response from the seller obviously we can not proceed with the sale any futher because any lender will not morgage this property without the building regs it all looks on the surface as if its been done properly but this is the thing no one knows thanks for your help i'll keep posting and let you know what happens we are going to ring the seller later to find out what the builders response is thanks

seven-day-weekend

One bit of good news, although you need Building Regs for a loft conversion you don't need planning permission unless a dormer window has been put in (and not always then),- unless the house is a listed building or in a conservation area.

saintalan

Hi

This is topical for me.

I bought my property 9 years ago and whilst in the legal process this was raised. I asked the EA to get a quote to correct it and they came back with £10k, so I said fine offer the seller £10k less. To my surprise they accepted it.

At no time did the Lender question 'the then 95% mortgage', they just reduced the offer by the amount of the reduction offering to further advance if and when I had the work done. I never did.

However I was always slightly concerned that if & when I came to sell it there might be a problem. The conversion alwasy felt OK and I used it as an office.

Recently we had the opportunity to move into a property (long story) and we decided to enhance the loft both to get more space and to get Building Regs.

Before stating the work the Inspector said it had been there longer than a year and I was not obliged to get approval, but obviously other purchasers might not find it an attractive proposition.

Anyway the works have started and last week the roof was off! It turned out that the floor comprised 3"x2" joists NOW they have put in 8"x2"!! Obviously as we are now addoing a Dormer we have much more floor space.

With regard to the Regs it appears it's OK unless you change it. As soon as you want to do some changes, they will reqiire Regs and then you have to change.

So to summarise, first find out if the Building Inspector will approcve it, they can do this retrospectively. If not approved get a price for putting it right.

If you proceed make sure that if you do further work ensure that you then make full use of the opportunity and make any changes to personalise it.

Hope this helps you or others in some small way.

Cheers

Alan

itsakidsworld

Please proceed very carefully with a purchase of a property which has had a loft conversion.

Although you say it appears to be correct, the very fact that they do not have any certificates from the council raises alarm bells. It is common practice for people to convert a loft for extra space to create a bedroom. However it is also common practice for people to try to save money and so tell the local council it is to be used only for storage space, then use it for a bedroom( or in most cases, not tell the council at all and think they are smart!!)

If you are serious about this property, ask the seller to approach the council for confirmation in writing that all is good with the conversion. Let them do all the required paperwork and if they get it then that is a plus point for you and one less thing to worry about. The council look at when it was constructed to decide if they accept it or not.

However, if I was going to buy the property, the main point I would be looking at and a point raised in the post above is the thickness of the floor joists. If they have placed a floor in the conversion on top of existing joists then I would not touch it. A correct conversion will have new, bigger floor joists placed along side the existing joints to take a new, load bearing floor, thus reducing stress and possible "spreading" of any outer walls in the future.

Please cover all areas because these so called "home improvements" can be so bad and incorrect that they could cause problems in the future. I have seen so many rubbish conversions and home owners so smug that they think they have beaten the system in order to save money ( or so they thought)!!

Good luck

MJMum

This is topical for me too, as we are buying a house which has had fairly extensive extensions which have no paperwork (planning permissions or building regs) but they have been up for many years and the surveyor said all was OK structurally so hopefully there will be a way around.

seven-day-weekend

If the extensions have been up for many years, no action can be taken by the Council re Planning Permission. I think this is also the case with Building Regulations, but I am not sure.

When I was working in Planning, very often a letter from the Planning Department to the Mortgage Lender stating this, would be sufficient.

silvercar

separate the 3 issues in your mind:

a) has it been constructed correctly, or at least, is it now safe? You should be able to get this info from your surveyor.

b) were the correct consents obtained? If it is over 4 years old (I think its only 1 year old for building regs but check), the council cannot order you to change anything. An indemnity policy should be possible (cost a couple of hundred pound - get the seller to pay) to give you / your lender peace of mind.

c) is the property worth less? A house with a loft storage space rather than an extra bedroom can only be advertised as such; this may affect the property value.

I find it much easier to decide whether you want to buy something, and how much you should pay, when you've separated the problems.

mrsc_4

The property we completed on in December has a loft conversion (into 2 bedrooms) and a single storey rear extension.

As this work was carried out in 1979 & 1980 there is no planning permission or building regs, our vendor paid for an indemnity insurance. At the time I was concerned but I sought advice from a surveyor where I work and he talked me though the options and we went ahead with the purchase.

Our solicitor and lender were both satisfied with the outcome and no one saw any reason why we couldn't live there as the previous owners had.

Good luck with your purchase all is not lost because the property doens't have the paperwork, as others above have said timescales is everything.

Richard_Webster

As a Conveyancing Solicitor I agree with Silvercar's analysis:

separate the 3 issues in your mind:

a) has it been constructed correctly, or at least, is it now safe? You should be able to get this info from your surveyor.

b) were the correct consents obtained? If it is over 4 years old (I think its only 1 year old for building regs but check), the council cannot order you to change anything. An indemnity policy should be possible (cost a couple of hundred pound - get the seller to pay) to give you / your lender peace of mind.

c) is the property worth less? A house with a loft storage space rather than an extra bedroom can only be advertised as such; this may affect the property value.

The only points are about building regulation indemnity policies which
(a) are generally cheaper than suggested but
(b) DO NOT give any cover if there are problems with the property resulting form a failure to comply with the regulations - only if the Council takes enforcement action, which is very unlikley anyway.