Taking letting agent to court to retrieve 'tenancy renewal' fee

vax2002

I have heard more horror stories about these protection schemes that landlords ripping people off.
They have become the exact opposite of what they were set up to do as they have let landlords sweet talk them round.
They have forgotten who's money they are holding.
I would love to see someone drag them to court so the Judge can remind them

princeofpounds

I have heard more horror stories about these protection schemes that landlords ripping people off.

Not sure about that! In the good old bad old days before the schemes half the time the tenants just gave up rather than have the hassle of court even if they could figure out what they were supposed to do in order to claim the money back.

jjlandlord

Manual_Reversion wrote: »

I feel as if I've been shafted.

Big time, imo.

You're lucky that the agent did not "reissue the tenancy agreement" every month or the TDS would have awarded thousand of pounds to them... :money:

johnbusby

Do the right thing and haul them through the courts just for the hell of it!

Manual_Reversion

jjlandlord wrote: »

You're lucky that the agent did not "reissue the tenancy agreement" every month or the TDS would have awarded thousand of pounds to them... :money:

Exactly. Perhaps I should send them a Christmas card thanking them.

johnbusby

You would think that these adjudicators would require a reasonable understanding of tenancy law to get the job. Unbelievable...

Manual_Reversion

johnbusby wrote: »

Do the right thing and haul them through the courts just for the hell of it!

I live in the centre of town and I'm just off to have a chat with a solicitor to get an idea of costs etc. It's a pretty simple case after all.

I have no experience of court so next step is a solicitor methinks.

I'll post back if anything interesting happens.

Manual_Reversion

Well, it seems solicitors are £200 per hour and it would take three hours work to prepare a case for Court, for the sake of the £80 that I've been robbed of, so not much sense in that.

A couple of separate sources have indicated that, because I embarked on the TDS procedure, I have forfeited my access to a small claims court. I can still access court, but my liabilities would extend to the other parties costs too, so very risky.

On my other thread, about the bath, it was pointed out that I could complain to the TDS, and if I could successfully argue in law why their decision was wrong, that they could overturn it. So I have written a piece, and pasted it below, that attempts to do that.

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]On 30th March 2011 the letting agent sent an email which included a document reminding us that the fixed period of the tenancy was due to end on 8th June 2011 and stated “Unless we hear from you to the contrary (in writing) we will raise a Periodic Tenancy Agreement that follows all the terms of the original tenancy agreement, except the fixed period.” I replied to the agent stating that we were happy for the “current AST to revert to a rolling tenancy, by default.” The law states that once the fixed period of an AST is over, the tenancy becomes statutory periodic automatically. There was no point incurring a charge of £76.37 for the issue of a wholly unnecessary contract, and that is why I declined it. The agent issued the contract anyway, but we did not sign it.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In the Adjudication Report the adjudicator states “It appears that's the tenants were happy for the tenancy to become a statutory periodic tenancy from month to month” which is true, but seems to miss the point that that is what would have happened anyway, which was why we refused the renewal agreement and associated cost. It doesn't make sense to me that just because the agent posts us a contract that we have refused, one that is pointless anyhow, that this justifies incurring the renewal fee. If you extend the logic, the agent could post us a new agreement every month, with associated cost, and the adjudicator would presumably uphold a claim against the whole of the deposit! That is absurd. If the landlord was unhappy with our decision not to agree to a renewal agreement, they could just evict us. Since that didn't happen I don't think it is right that just because the landlord wanted a new agreement, one is automatically deemed to have been agreed, simply because we received it in the post.[/FONT]

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Sorry this is so long, but if anyone has any pointers on how I might improve the argument I'd be very grateful.

I never thought injustice would be so infuriating...I'm off for some fresh air.

princeofpounds

The agent did NOT 'issue' the periodic tenancy because their version never came into effect, you need to correct that language.

You need to be very specific on WHY you are appealing and WHAT grounds. Use the TDS's own language at all points so they can relate it to their internal procedures.

For example, use the principles I referred you to in the other thread. Refer to the document and which ones might apply. Refer to the guide to their own appeals and that you are appealing on the application of the law.

Split it down into very simple sentences and mini-paragraphs. Stylistically this might seem a little abrupt but you need step-by-step logic that is easy to follow.

I would suggest something like (very loosely):

Title (Complaint/Appeal on.... )
Reference (TDS case number)

I am appealing on the basis of the application of the law to my case, and also that TDS did not properly administer its own principles in the judgement blah blah... I believe this case needs review by a senior adjudicator as a result....

concise recap of the situation...

specific points of contention
1) The 'new' periodic tenancy agreement could never have been 'issued' because you never signed it. Simply printing papers on a printer does not and can not constitute the issuance of contract. by law, as that requires agreement.
2) The adjudicator says 'tenants were happy for the periodic continuance....' in their judgement. Remind that Statutory periodic tenancies arise by default in law and so issuance of a further contract was not required (and indeed was explicitly refused, and did not happen), so the adjudicator did not understand the proper application of law. Even better if you can find the reference in the appropriate Act of parliament where SPTs are outlined.
3) If the logic applied by the adjudicator is extended they coudl just print tenancies unilaterally as often as they liked and make a charge.
2) The amount of the charge is not specified in the tenancy agreement, as required per TDS principles in document 'blah blah'
3) The ability to take the deposit for agency fees is not specificied in the tenancy agreement, as required by TDS....


etc.

Section 5 of Housing Act 1988 is where SPTs come from. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/section/5

MissMoneypenny

Manual_Reversion wrote: »

Well, it seems solicitors are £200 per hour and it would take three hours work to prepare a case for Court, for the sake of the £80 that I've been robbed of, so not much sense in that.

I just posted on your other thread; have you got legal cover with your house contents policy? Or legal cover with any policy or credit cards?

If you have, phone up your insurer and ask for a claim form for Legal Insurance. Once approved, you can then use a solicitor and barrister in housing law and all your legal costs are covered up to your agreed limit; usually about 100k but they will go over the limit if they sniff a win in court with the other party then picking up all the costs.

Reading your thread, I'm so glad my son refused to use the deposit dispute service and opted for court instead (using his legal cover on his insurance). The landlady had just fronted for her husband to use her tax allowanace. She went for her husband, who in turn went for the letting agent. The property was given to another LA and the landlady settled out of court; full deposit and other matters the solicitor found the tenant could claim on.