Unemployment up again

wotsthat

Mallotum_X wrote: »

Not exactly a fully representative annecdote but a couple of years ago there was a clip on the news about unemployment in the Northants area. Portuguese farm labour were doing teh fruit picking. Interview with local chav complaining that the foreigners were taking all the jobs, but when asked if he had applied to work on the farms his reply was that he wouldnt get out of bed to do that.

I might have seen the documentary that the clip came from. It was depressing to say the least. The investigative reporter basically waited outside the benefits office and asked the young men leaving about their situations. To a man they all said they really wanted to work, would do anything and had dedicated their lives to finding work. Then the reporter told them that he'd got some work lined up and they could start that afternoon on a FTE wage of £25,000 picking butternut squash. All refused - too early a start, too hard, too demeaning, having to work with foreigners etc.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

wotsthat wrote: »

I might have seen the documentary that the clip came from. It was depressing to say the least. The investigative reporter basically waited outside the benefits office and asked the young men leaving about their situations. To a man they all said they really wanted to work, would do anything and had dedicated their lives to finding work. Then the reporter told them that he'd got some work lined up and they could start that afternoon on a FTE wage of £25,000 picking butternut squash. All refused - too early a start, too hard, too demeaning, having to work with foreigners etc.

Isn't most farm work seasonal though? You may not pass a rental credit check with that kind of employment.

kabayiri

Mallotum_X wrote: »

...
As to the politics, the tories dont seem in any hurry to cut immigration, they have given the sound bites of being tough, but has immigration fallen..
...

How exactly do you cut immigration though when we are part of a wider union where there is free movement of labour ? Most immigration comes from countries in this union.

If the economy is stagnant over the next few years (and there is every chance of that) we have to accept higher unemployment is the price to pay for cheaper immigrant labour. I don't see how it could be otherwise.

Rochdale_Pioneers

There are several elephants in the room that no politicians seem to want to address. The biggest is that wages have not kept up with the cost of living - net immigration has held wages down whilst a credit bubble has driven up the cost of living. We are a consumerist society now - material goods are far more important than old notions of society or family. So people feel they HAVE to consume, and that means a need for goods they can't afford.

What role has migration had in this? Simple - its the tool used to keep a cheap labour force. Ordinarily when prices rise wages rise as we saw in the 70s and 80s. Now prices rise, wages stagnate and people have to work longer for less because if you won't they will. Labour used immigrant Labour to do this, and for all the Tories claims about their desire to cut Labour, their own budgets plan on increasing immigrantion to serve the same purpose.

So, on one hand we have people who see stagnant wages and rising prices and think "why work, it doesn't pay enough", and a much larger pool of hard working people whose wages do not cover the bills so they have in work top up benefits and tax credits. Thatcher "rolled back" the state yet increased welfare spending due to mass prolongued unemployment. Labour increased welfare spending as unemployment fell by topping up tax credits. Now the Tories are cutting benefit payments but the cash sum can't fall due to mass unemployment again.

So what can be done? Well, you could cut benefits for not just the unemployed but also the employed. Government expenditure cut, but then you'll see government income cut as real poverty kicks in and people stop consuming. Cutting benefits doesn't magically make life cheaper - witness the "if we cut housing benefits then landlords will cut rents" failure.

What we need is either to reduce the cost of living or increase incomes. Or preferably both. But that means investing in universal childcare. Or reducing corporate profits and tax dodges. And reducing the amount of money thats flowed out of our economy to the top 1%. None of which are likely politically as our establishment are in thrall to this most special of special interest groups. So instead we blame the people in the middle working flat out and still broke.

Road_Hog

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

[some text snipped for brevity]

So what can be done? Well, you could cut benefits for not just the unemployed but also the employed. Government expenditure cut, but then you'll see government income cut as real poverty kicks in and people stop consuming. Cutting benefits doesn't magically make life cheaper - witness the "if we cut housing benefits then landlords will cut rents" failure.

What we need is either to reduce the cost of living or increase incomes. Or preferably both. But that means investing in universal childcare. Or reducing corporate profits and tax dodges. And reducing the amount of money thats flowed out of our economy to the top 1%. None of which are likely politically as our establishment are in thrall to this most special of special interest groups. So instead we blame the people in the middle working flat out and still broke.

At least someone gets it. However, I think the desire is there to 'break' the welfare system by overburdening it. It will then need to be overhauled which is a euphemism for cutting it back for everyone. At the same time we may see a reduction in the minimum wage (as has happened in Ireland) or a stagnation of it so that in real terms it will decline.

Then people will be forced to work for corporations and 'slave' wages. It's a somewhat dystopian future.

And for the 'fruit picker' suggesters (why is it always fruit picking?), it's seasonal, I've just looked it up and yep, minimum wage £5.78 ph this year (season has finished). Out of that, transport and food have to be paid (not provided) and the employer helpfully suggests that there are plenty of campsites nearby.

If anyone thinks that they can live any sort of normal life on that wage and in those conditions then good luck to them. BTW, it is nigh on impossible to look for a job whilst doing that 8 hours a day. Oh, and TV reporters aren't going to interview (British) people that want a job for their TV programme, they spend their time finding people who will perpetuate the myth that the British are lazy and what do the jobs that foreigners will. What on Earth did fruit growers do before Poland joined the EU?

High unemployment is here to stay and it's only going to get worse or drive wages down more. It's been affecting the working class for years and now it's starting to affect the middle class as well. I'll be interested to see how many middle class people keep spouting on about fruit picking when they get outsourced, the second car has to be sold and mummy can't take little Johny on the school run, the holidays go out the window and welcome to the world of filling out tax credit applications. Still, you'll always have fruit picking.