Innappropriate Investments

darkpool

Meeper wrote: »

You do realise that commission will just be called something else, right? Changing the name of commission won't stop dodgy sales. You clearly demonstrate that you don't know the nature of commission in its current form, so once again, please feel free to get some knowledge before posting.

yeah, i agree with you there. there will always be dodgy sales in the IFA game.

perhaps a lot of the posters here shoud take their rose tinted spectatcles off regarding IFAs? They are salesman, not professionals.

dunstonh

yeah, i agree with you there. there will always be dodgy sales in the IFA game.

perhaps a lot of the posters here shoud take their rose tinted spectatcles off regarding IFAs? They are salesman, not professionals.

I get paid for giving advice. People pay me for the advice I give and the service I provide. So, if you class advice as the product being sold then that makes me a salesperson. It also makes my accountant a salesperson as well as my solicitor or indeed anyone out there that gets paid for doing a job.

You should check the definition of professional as IFAs fit it fine.

darkpool

dunstonh wrote: »

I get paid for giving advice. People pay me for the advice I give and the service I provide. So, if you class advice as the product being sold then that makes me a salesperson. It also makes my accountant a salesperson as well as my solicitor or indeed anyone out there that gets paid for doing a job.

You should check the definition of professional as IFAs fit it fine.

It was Meeper, who claims to be an IFA, that was talking about dodgy sales.....

So what commission does your accountant or solicitor charge? Or do they charge a fee, like most professionals?

are there any other professionals that continue to receive income from advice they "sold" decades before?

dunstonh

So what commission does your accountant or solicitor charge? Or do they charge a fee, like most professionals?

the solicitor and accountant charge fees just as I do.

are there any other professionals that continue to receive income from advice they "sold" decades before?

Are there other professionals that carry a liability to the day they die?

darkpool

dunstonh wrote: »

the solicitor and accountant charge fees just as I do.

Are there other professionals that carry a liability to the day they die?

but not all IFAs charge fees.... imho any person that gets a lot/ most of their income in commission can't really be called a professional.

i'd say most professions carry a liability until they die..... but none of them continue to get paid for advice they might have gave a couple of decades previously.

dunstonh

but not all IFAs charge fees.... imho any person that gets a lot/ most of their income in commission can't really be called a professional.

Most have moved to fees and those that havent will have to do so in 12 months. The method of remuneration is chosen by the client (unless fee only is offered). Not the adviser.

i'd say most professions carry a liability until they die..... but none of them continue to get paid for advice they might have gave a couple of decades previously.

They dont carry liability until they die. They have a legal stop gap timebar. Financial services is one of a minority of industries where that does not apply.

darkpool

dunstonh wrote: »

Most have moved to fees and those that havent will have to do so in 12 months. The method of remuneration is chosen by the client (unless fee only is offered). Not the adviser.

They dont carry liability until they die. They have a legal stop gap timebar. Financial services is one of a minority of industries where that does not apply.

To quote Meeper though "You do realise that commission will just be called something else, right? Changing the name of commission won't stop dodgy sales." I do believe Meeper has deleted that post

You must admit, the perception is that the IFA community was dragged kicking and screaming into accepting fee only.

If you buy a house etc and the lawyer messes up it might be decades before any incompetence on the part of the lawyer becomes evident. Do you think when you buy a house you should give the lawyer something every year for the following decades?

I'm a civil engineer, if i make a serious design flaw i could go to court and be charged under The Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act or the Health and Safety (Offences) Act. As you know criminal charges have no time bar. Do I get a nice little payment each year for things I have designed in the past? No, I do not.

dunstonh

To quote Meeper though "You do realise that commission will just be called something else, right? Changing the name of commission won't stop dodgy sales." I do believe Meeper has deleted that post

He is right. With advised cases, commission has never been found to create any widespread issues. If you look at the banks, who are by far the worst offenders, their staff are not on commission. They have sales pressure, heavy sales management and targets. It isnt commission that causes issues.

You must admit, the perception is that the IFA community was dragged kicking and screaming into accepting fee only.

Old school ones yes. However, the reason is that most "customers historically have preferred commission. The consumer needs educating. Some dont want to be educated. Some do. The route of least resistance was to go with commission and human nature is to go the route of least resistance. A lot of advisers who hadnt made the move to fees were genuinely scared to do so. Those that have realised it isnt the scary move they thought.

If you buy a house etc and the lawyer messes up it might be decades before any incompetence on the part of the lawyer becomes evident. Do you think when you buy a house you should give the lawyer something every year for the following decades?

No. That is clearly a transaction which is one off. Its not comparing like for like with a adviser that rebalances the portfolio, deals with corporate actions, bed&ISA, uses CGT allowances etc on an annual basis. Also, very many advisers do annual home visits to go with that.

I'm a civil engineer, if i make a serious design flaw i could go to court and be charged under The Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act or the Health and Safety (Offences) Act. As you know criminal charges have no time bar. Do I get a nice little payment each year for things I have designed in the past? No, I do not.

Your billing will reflect that and why should you get any more each year?

Rollinghome

dunstonh wrote: »

He is right. With advised cases, commission has never been found to create any widespread issues.

You almost say that as if you believe it. You're a natural.

darkpool

dunstonh wrote: »

He is right. With advised cases, commission has never been found to create any widespread issues. If you look at the banks, who are by far the worst offenders, their staff are not on commission. They have sales pressure, heavy sales management and targets. It isnt commission that causes issues.

So you agree with Meeper that there are dodgy sales?

Banks might not pay their staff commission, but I bet they pay staff a bonus for products they flog to the public. I think in that case bonus and commission are really the same thing.

How can commission not cause issues? Jobs where commission is a large part of an employees income are notorious for ripping the punter off. Of course on planet IFA double glazing salesmen & used car salesman might be the most honest people, however on planet earth DG salesmen/ car salesmen/ estate agents etc are notorious for ripping off the public.

You must be paid by an IFA organisation to post on this website?