Odd disciplinary issue... Any advice welcome!

Weird_Nev

I am posting on behalf of another, I wouldn't want things to get sticky! This is quite a unique situation...

This person is a vet nurse at a remote vet practice. She's worked there for a couple of years and they're putting her through her vet nurse training. She has a dog, which has been very ill. She has taken it to her own vet practice as she gets a discount there, for various tests which have been inconclusive. Being as she moves in vet circles, a friend who is a vet elsewhere thought it might be a particular condition, so my sister took her dog to a different vet practice -not her friends - in order to get some (expensive) tests run. Her reasons for using that vet practice and not her own were many - they are specialists in the tests and the results come back in a day. It is closer to her husbands work and she was on a course a hundred miles away, so he could drop the dog off and pick it up more easily. In short, it made sense to take the dog there.

Anyway, her own vet practice has got wind of the fact that she has taken her dog elsewhere for tests. They have invited her in for a formal disciplinary hearing saying that unless she can give very good reason for why she took her dog elsewhere, she will be given a formal disciplinary letter - which sounds like a first warning.

She has phoned her associations legal helpline who basically said "What on earth?".
She is not a member of any union. Her practice said she could have a friend or a union rep in the meeting, but they'll only delay the meeting for a union rep to attend.
Nowhere in her contract does it say anything about her having to take any pets to that practice.
She is not 100% sure if they're asking her WHY she took the dog to another vet, or why she didn't TELL them she was doing that. The letter doesn't make it clear.

I'm of the opinion that she probably shouldn't even engage them unless they can say exactly what they're asking her to account for. But, they're paying for her vet nurse training, and jobs aren't exactly easy to come by in that part of the world. So, I'm perhaps of the opinion that she should let them go through the disciplinary process and then have them over a barrel if they get round to dismissing her.

They've given her a photocopy of the Vet nurse codes of conduct, which says about not bringing the profession into disrepute, but nothing more specific. She certainly hasn't badmouthed HER practice, she didn't even mention it to the one she got the tests done at.

She likes the job, but she's worried that discipline will mean she has them breathing down her neck all the time looking for more reasons to take further action as they seem not to trust her now....

Any ideas how to approach the situation??

SarEl

I would agree with the "What the..." analysis. The problem is that unless she is dismissed there is nowhere she can complain about a warning to. But she can't refuse to attend the disciplinary, so she has no options here. Sorry, but I think she will have to take this on the chin, unfair as it is.

The other day I saw an Asda employee in unifrom buying shopping at Morrisons... I hope Asda are more understanding than this crappy lot. Having dogs myself I would do whatever is necessary if they were ill, and devil take someone who told me I couldn't. It says something profoundly worrying about a vetinary practice who would discipline someone for getting another opinion when they cannot diagnose the problem. They don't deserve to have the care of animals - the animal should come first, and not their opinion of themselves.

Sambucus_Nigra

But her husband took their dog - she didn't take it anywhere......is her husband bound by a mystery rule as well then?

dseventy

This is indeed "odd", are you getting the full story off your friend?

Does she have a contract with the practice as part of her training? Does it mention anything about the care of her pets? Did the other vet solve the issue with the dog?

I think we all need more information (and I suggest you ask it) as it sounds very bizarre!

D70

Uncertain

SarEl wrote: »

It says something profoundly worrying about a vetinary practice who would discipline someone for getting another opinion when they cannot diagnose the problem. They don't deserve to have the care of animals - the animal should come first, and not their opinion of themselves.

I agree and wonder if there are grounds here for a complaint to the RCVS.

Unfortunately that doesn't help the employment situation. Also the RCVS, although they have similar legal powers to the GMC, have something of a reputation for sweeping things under the carpet.

If she were to be dismissed there would be a good story here for the local paper which wouldn't do the practice any good at all.

cr1mson

I am sure those who are more expert on employment law can comment but how can they prove that the dog was taken to that vet? Surely the vet that she took it to was under an obligation to keep his/her patients details confidential? Even if this is not the case it was her husband that took it not her anyway.

C

Weird_Nev

dseventy wrote: »

This is indeed "odd", are you getting the full story off your friend?

Yes, She told me today. She was upset, but I got the details such as they are.

dseventy wrote: »

Does she have a contract with the practice as part of her training?

Yes, she is an employee, the training is an additional part of this. She was employed about 2 years ago, and about a year ago passed exams to get on the training programme to become a qualified vet nurse. The cost of this is being borne by the practice.

dseventy wrote: »

Does it mention anything about the care of her pets? Did the other vet solve the issue with the dog?

No, it mentions nothing about you having to take any pets to them, and the dog is still ill although they have a better idea what's wrong with it!

I am sure those who are more expert on employment law can comment but how can they prove that the dog was taken to that vet? Surely the vet that she took it to was under an obligation to keep his/her patients details confidential? Even if this is not the case it was her husband that took it not her anyway.

I'm not 100% sure that it WAS her husband who actually dropped the dog off with the vet. THey heard about it through word of mouth. It's a close community, not many vets about and obviously the person in question was open in discussing her dogs illness with her colleagues. Perhaps that is it? Perhaps she has said something or a rumour has been passed that has left the practice feeling that she's been bad mouthing them or something?

Weird_Nev

Ok, I've discussed this further and it's just so ridiculous!

The letter states "We are upset that you sought a second opinion without consulting us, and this has negatively impacted the morale of the practice. It is contary to our codes of practice..." Blah blah blah.

Here's the rub:
She Took the dog to the vets the day after her dog was seriously ill for the day, and that practice DID call her practice for her notes etc, in effect informing the practice that she was going for a second opinion. That practice can get the results of this test same day, at her employing practice they take a week.

She's written a very good ,factual letter about her reasons ,and the fact that they appear to be applying the vets code of conduct to somone who was in fact a client at the time, and in any event is actually a vet nurse and so not bound by the vets code of conduct!

Anyway, she has written a letter in response and in my opinion they can ONLY back down! If they proceed with a writen warning then they're just insane ,and also over an absolute barrel!

emsywoo123

cr1mson wrote: »

I am sure those who are more expert on employment law can comment but how can they prove that the dog was taken to that vet? Surely the vet that she took it to was under an obligation to keep his/her patients details confidential? Even if this is not the case it was her husband that took it not her anyway.

C

Nope, Vets are not bound by any sort of confidentiality agreements/laws

emsywoo123

Approaching this from a different angle, I used to be a VN, and I *do* understand why her practice are pee'd off.

Ease, location, speciality and other excuses aside, she could have got a referral from her practice. It does undermine the confidence and morale in a practice, and I can understand why they want to talk to her and possibly take it further.

That said, I do not think she has broken any laws, but they will take a *very*dim view of her

emsywoo123

Weird_Nev wrote: »

Ok, I've discussed this further and it's just so ridiculous!

The letter states "We are upset that you sought a second opinion without consulting us, and this has negatively impacted the morale of the practice. It is contary to our codes of practice..." Blah blah blah.

No, not blah blah blah, it is a *very* valid point!

Here's the rub:
She Took the dog to the vets the day after her dog was seriously ill for the day, and that practice DID call her practice for her notes etc, in effect informing the practice that she was going for a second opinion. That practice can get the results of this test same day, at her employing practice they take a week.

She could have easily been referred by her practice, or a simple phone call to let them know what had happened or why....manners really! Not nice to get a call from another practice to find a staff member has been using them!

She's written a very good ,factual letter about her reasons ,and the fact that they appear to be applying the vets code of conduct to somone who was in fact a client at the time, and in any event is actually a vet nurse and so not bound by the vets code of conduct!

Anyway, she has written a letter in response and in my opinion they can ONLY back down! If they proceed with a writen warning then they're just insane ,and also over an absolute barrel!

No, not insanity. Why insane?