Out of stock refund

david39

But, irrespective of the length of time it takes, whether it is 7 days or 30 days, the customer has lost the use of the money for that length of time and, in the OP's case, it was for no fault of her own but down to a system that took money from her for goods that were not available.

It's no excuse to say that it's "the system" - that's just passing the buck.

With FPS systems available now, money can be moved between accounts in minutes - and that applies to Gordon's expenses claim as well. If his employer was willing to, they could approve his expense claim and put the money in his bank on the same day as he submitted his claim - although that is not the same case as where money has been taken for non-existent goods.

I agree that putting money back on to a credit card is likely to be more lengthy and not so urgent, but if the card is a debit card then that should be an almost-immediate process.

despotthesecond

Gordon_Hose wrote: »

If I bought a pack of sausages in Tesco, and got them home to find it was a pack of tampons I could take it back to the store for a refund and they would do it there in front of me, putting the money back onto the card I had purchased my Sauspons with.

There is no reason why they can't do it there and then.

However, they will have a whole list of refunds to get through, all for various items, and they'll just get to yours in turn. That is why they quote 30 days, to allow them time to work through their list of refunds. You won't be the only person waiting. And not everyone within the company can authorise refunds, so I suspect a manager will have to process it.

I don't agree that it is right though. But having worked as a Manager a 24/7/365 call centre, it was down to me (on the night shift) to process any refunds that were outstanding. Sometimes there were hundreds, others a few.

Understood.

Although I would suggest that people who have handed over cash for non-existent goods should either go to the front of the line or have a line of their own.

Also, I'd like a dozen of your finest Sauspons please.

texranger

david39 wrote: »

but if the card is a debit card then that should be an almost-immediate process.

yes i agree this should happen as if they can take the money straight away a refund should be done the same way.

retailers have argued this posint many times with banks and payment processors and maybe one day they will listen and do something.

the only delay eliment is if you make a purchase today with a dc the money is taken from your available balance and is in a holding pattern until the sellers bank requests and accepts the payment this can take upto 24 hrs. then within a few hours of the purchase you find in faulty or wrong and take it back for a refund, the store will process the refund, but as the fuinds have not yet reached ther seller account either 1 of 2 things will happen, the refund will cancel out the original transaction so the funds will not be requested from the buyers bank account ( this is the longest method) as the money will sit in the holding poattern for upto 7 days waiting for the sellers bank to request the payment, if iuts not requested then it will revert back to your available balance. the other way is once the funds have been accepted by the seller then the refund is initated which usually takes 48 hours. these timings are if the card payment system is run by one of the banks these wil take longer if the card processing is done externally by someone like sagepay

Gordon_Hose

david39 wrote: »

But, irrespective of the length of time it takes, whether it is 7 days or 30 days, the customer has lost the use of the money for that length of time and, in the OP's case, it was for no fault of her own but down to a system that took money from her for goods that were not available.

It's no excuse to say that it's "the system" - that's just passing the buck.

With FPS systems available now, money can be moved between accounts in minutes - and that applies to Gordon's expenses claim as well. If his employer was willing to, they could approve his expense claim and put the money in his bank on the same day as he submitted his claim - although that is not the same case as where money has been taken for non-existent goods.

I agree that putting money back on to a credit card is likely to be more lengthy and not so urgent, but if the card is a debit card then that should be an almost-immediate process.

Not all banks use the FPS though, do they!

And... that is the system. No-one is earning any interest on the money while it is floating around in cyberspace waiting for the bank to process it to the relevant account.

If the company have processed a refund, but it takes 30 days for it to show in your account, then who's fault is it?? It's not the shop who issued the refund, they've done their bit. It's the banks fault.

IF it takes your bank 30 days to process refunds, then I'd be moving banks. 3 - 5 days is about the norm for most banks, but unless they use the FPS there's not a great deal you can do about it.

fireitup

How about when I bought goods in a large toy store where you pay for the goods by debit card first and then they told me that they don't actually have the goods they said they had. Does that mean that the store have no responsibility to provide an immediate refund because of the time it takes to go through various systems?
If the store said they have the goods but then say they don't after taking your money they must be liable to refund you straight away, surely (however they do it).

texranger

fireitup wrote: »

How about when I bought goods in a large toy store where you pay for the goods by debit card first and then they tell you that they don't actually have the goods they said they had. Does that mean that the store have no responsibility to provide an immediate refund because of the time it takes to go through various systems?
If the store said they have the goods but then say they don't after taking your money they must be liable to refund you straight away, surely (however they do it).

yes the store will give you an immediate refund back to the card, but its the antique banking system that is slow in placing the funds back into your bank account

david39

Texranger is correct. Unless the retailer is being beligerent because he has not made a sale, then he will action the refund quickly.

The money is somewhere in the control of the banking system so my question was:

Is it still sitting in the retailer's account because the system takes days to actually withdraw it?
If it has left the retailer's bank account, is it sitting in the retailer's bank's own account for days afterwards before being moved on?
Is it in the customer's bank's account but not credited to the customer for days afterwards?

My wife sold some clothes to a dress agency recently. It was a small retailer, and very early in the morning, so she was asked if she would accept payment through her bank debit card account rather than in cash. She agreed to this, so the retailer processed the direct payment using her debit card and the card machine.

The payment took 11 days to reach her account (including one weekend) - so where was the money during that time. "In the system" or "In cyberspace" is not a good enough answer - it must appear as a credit on someone's books, somewhere and is then available for short term use or collateral.

fireitup

Aren't the store in someway responsible/liable, after having taken my money, to provide an immediate refund, maybe even a cash refund?
The situation was created by them and was entirely their fault.

For the full story see thread in the 'ALL SHOPPED OUT' forum category. 'TOYS R US LET DOWN'
(can't post the link, sorry)

texranger

fireitup wrote: »

Aren't the store in someway responsible/liable, after having taken my money, to provide an immediate refund, maybe even a cash refund?
The situation was created by them and was entirely their fault.

For the full story see thread in the 'ALL SHOPPED OUT' forum category. 'TOYS R US LET DOWN'
(can't post the link, sorry)

no refunds are to be made toi the card the original transaction is made on or if they card has expired the replacement card once approved by the retailers merchant service provider

goign back to

david39 wrote: »

Is it still sitting in the retailer's account because the system takes days to actually withdraw it?
If it has left the retailer's bank account, is it sitting in the retailer's bank's own account for days afterwards before being moved on?
Is it in the customer's bank's account but not credited to the customer for days afterwards?

it is neither of these. it is removed from the retailers bank account ( if it reaches the retailers bank account) and sent over the the customers bank, so i assume its held somewhere inbetween.

if a retailer uses a 3rd party provider ( we use cashflow) if you pay today the funds after they take their fee wont reach our bank account until at the earliers next Monday as funds are deposited to our bank on a Monday following 7 days, so they keep it at least 7 days before we actually get it

david39

it is removed from the retailers bank account ( if it reaches the retailers bank account) and sent over the the customers bank, so i assume its held somewhere inbetween.

But that is exactly the problem .... where is "Somewhere in Between?"

It is not morally correct for a customer to be parted from his/her money for seven or more days just because the retailer has made an error. Non-availability of the funds may well preclude the customer from being able to buy the item elsewhere, through no fault of their own.

"Somewhere in between" is not a location - the money must be accountable on someone's books for that period, and they will have the benefit of the credit that it gives them - not the person to whom the money really belongs.