MSE News: MPs' report calls for financial education in schools

bestpud

I did calculus for O level maths in the 80s.

I never understood it mind you, so skipped those questions and managed a C grade.

Person_one

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

We did calculus for O level in the 60s.

Has it been of much use to you in the years since?

I've certainly never needed it, I've managed drug calculations just fine with only my GCSE B in maths.

Pincher

Maybe it's financial alertness we should teach, similar to neighbourhood watch and beware pick pockets.

We do role playing games, with casino chips: paper money is difficult to show how much is earned or lost.

Bankers, financial advisors, pension fund managers would dress up as Ferengis (Quark, Star Trek Deep Space 9).

Class 1. Basic Savings and Borrowing.

In teams of staff and customers.

Building society (non-Ferengi outfit), pupils save money using one desk, and borrow money from the other desk.

The desks would display interest rates, and pupils would have to work out how much they should get, from both sides of the desk. Variable rate, Fixed rate. Chips change hands.


Class 2. Fees and overheads

In teams of staff and customers.

We build on Class 1, and introduce fees and APRs.
Introduce concepts of overhead (staff cost, landlord demand rent from Building Society, HMRC man wears a top hat. Chips change hands.
The pupils should work out various overheads, and try to charge and make a profit, but customers will just go to another desk, where another team charges less. If they charge too little, they go bankrupt.

Class 3. How they steal from you

Promo rates, so the chips you get is less later on.

Dressed as Ferengis, the Pension Fund Manager would blow your money on fast cars and loose women, while you pay monthly.
At the end, of course, you find your fund is full of cancelled units, in the name of "fees".

Small print, exclusion clauses Etc.

Class 4. Corruption

We introduce charges under monopoly, under comptetition.
Forming of cartel, powerless FSA, staffed by buddies of the bankers.
Ideally, King Arthur turns up, slaughters them all with Ex-Calibur, and give the money back to the people, but that's Hollywood ending.

Financial Ombudsman, your rights, etc.

The_One_Who

What fifteen year olds are going to play role-playing games in class? I know my class certainly wouldn't have, or at least not take them at all seriously. Might as well give people a game of Monopoly and let them have at it.

melancholly

although i do in principle love the idea of making school children dress up as ferengis (genius - for any reason, not solely financial education!), i fear the reference may be lost on most people

amiehall

Person_one wrote: »

Has it been of much use to you in the years since?

I've certainly never needed it, I've managed drug calculations just fine with only my GCSE B in maths.

But for example, I'm on a maths based degree where we use a lot of calculus to form equations that act as models of real life situations. Calculus can have a lot of applications.

I understand they're not directly relevant to most people, however, if I hadn't done any when I was younger, learning them later would be pushing other content out of my course now. I was capable of learning them then so why not.

It's funny because people encourage some things for their own sake. Like I was encouraged to learn to play an instrument and managed to pass my grade 8. What use is that to my adult life?? I don't want to be a musician.

Considering that it's only taught (definitely now) to people who have achieved basic standards, I don't see that it could be reasonably replaced with financial education for example because, if you want on to higher level maths you'd have no foundation to build on.

Person_one

People who do maths based degrees generally have to do A level maths to get onto them though, which includes calculus.

Most people who play a musical instrument to grade 8 do so because they derive pleasure from it. I'm not a musician but I still play as a hobby and to relax.

I think it must be possible to teach some GCSE level maths in an applied way that relates to finances.

amiehall

I do have A Level maths but obviously if you replace some of that with whatever we're taking out of GCSE, that needs to be taught later. It's the same thing. Point being replacing some of my core maths content with financial education would not have been of benefit overall for me. While I can see it can link in with maths (simplistically....) the actual lessons aren't that mathematical. Don't spend more than you earn or that kind of message/guidance is not maths at all.

Oldernotwiser

Person_one wrote: »

Has it been of much use to you in the years since?

I've certainly never needed it, I've managed drug calculations just fine with only my GCSE B in maths.

I don't think that the only point of education is for it to be useful.

Oldernotwiser

Person_one wrote: »

People who do maths based degrees generally have to do A level maths to get onto them though, which includes calculus.

Most people who play a musical instrument to grade 8 do so because they derive pleasure from it. I'm not a musician but I still play as a hobby and to relax.

I think it must be possible to teach some GCSE level maths in an applied way that relates to finances.

I totally agree with this point although I think that it already happens, as it always used to. My understanding of the petition was that they were looking for far more than just functional Maths teaching.