sickess and holiday leave

blondie21

I can't believe they would do this. It was the HR dept who told me this
And it was done on someone last year, they lost their sick days
Are you 100 % sure cos when I kick up a fuss they will try and get
Me out ! They are a reals shower of pigs !!!
Will I saw I have been advised of the law... Who will I say by whom ?

Googlewhacker

blondie21 wrote: »

I can't believe they would do this. It was the HR dept who told me this
And it was done on someone last year, they lost their sick days
Are you 100 % sure cos when I kick up a fuss they will try and get
Me out ! They are a reals shower of pigs !!!
Will I saw I have been advised of the law... Who will I say by whom ?

Whilst it is legal for you to claim the holiday could you blame them to start procedures against you to dismiss you (on capability grounds)when basically you have cost them 5.6 weeks wages plus other various costs to cover you and you will have done absolutely no work to benefit them for a whole year.

Also bear in mind if that previous employee who lost their holiday pay had mentioned getting their legal right to holiday then chances are they may have tightened up on their sick policy before you went of ill and you could have been dismissed a few months ago and thus not be in work.

As said you have a legal right to the holiday but frankly your attitude towards the situation sucks.

jazzyman01

Just to clarify. If you have a contractual allowance to say 38 days you will have 10 days more than the statutory requirement.

If you have taken 20 days holiday already then although you have a contractual entitlement to 38 and therefore 18 still to take you would only be able to carry over 8 days i.e. the difference between what you have taken and the statutory minimum. You would lose the other 10.

blondie21

I have an allowance of 20 days, I have taken 8 ( 4 of those were bank hols,
May day etc. I have 12 days left , can I either carry them over in 2012, or get them to pay me rather than lose them ???

KiKi

blondie21 wrote: »

I have an allowance of 20 days, I have taken 8 ( 4 of those were bank hols,
May day etc. I have 12 days left , can I either carry them over in 2012, or get them to pay me rather than lose them ???

No, you have 28 days by law, including BHs (see previous posts). That's the minimum. If you've taken 8, inc BHs, then you have 20 left that can be paid for.

KiKi

skintandscared_2

Sorry if I missed it, but before your sickness absence did you work full time? If so, you are entitled, by law, to 28 days' annual holiday. If the company wishes, this CAN include bank holidays. But the absolute minimum is 28 days. It therefore sounds like your entitlement is 20 days PLUS bank holidays.

This paragraph has been taken from the website rightstobenefits.com and says:

"The Long-Term Sick Employee.

In a long-running case bought by the HMRC against Stringer, it has been determined that where an employee who is on long-term sick leave, has been unable to take his/her normal holiday because of that sickness, then they are entitled to carry forward to the next year, any holiday missed as a result of that sickness. Further to that, if there is a termination of employment after the period of sickness, then there is an entitlement for remuneration in lieu of the missed holiday opportunity. In the event that the employer does not pay this entitlement, then a claim for non-payment of wages can be instigated through the normal channels. Some employers may not be aware of this relatively new development of sickness in holidays, so the help of your trade union might be sought - after firstly alerting your (ex) employer to the situation and the law as now stands."

And here is a further analysis of the case. You may find this helpful.

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2009/01/21/49084/paid-holiday-ecj-ruling-on-stringer-v-hmrc.html

The simple fact is, you are entitled by law to carry over your holiday!!!

blondie21

I work 21 hours.....been there for 6 years, so 20 days is prob. Correct .
Before that I worked full time. Never been off sick before though !
I am just scared of ringing them, but I don't think it's right what they are doing, when we are really
Struggling for money with. Christmas tho... Like most people
at
the minute !
Wil have to bite the bullet tho .

blondie21

skintandscared wrote: »

Sorry if I missed it, but before your sickness absence did you work full time? If so, you are entitled, by law, to 28 days' annual holiday. If the company wishes, this CAN include bank holidays. But the absolute minimum is 28 days. It therefore sounds like your entitlement is 20 days PLUS bank holidays.

This paragraph has been taken from the website rightstobenefits.com and says:

"The Long-Term Sick Employee.

In a long-running case bought by the HMRC against Stringer, it has been determined that where an employee who is on long-term sick leave, has been unable to take his/her normal holiday because of that sickness, then they are entitled to carry forward to the next year, any holiday missed as a result of that sickness. Further to that, if there is a termination of employment after the period of sickness, then there is an entitlement for remuneration in lieu of the missed holiday opportunity. In the event that the employer does not pay this entitlement, then a claim for non-payment of wages can be instigated through the normal channels. Some employers may not be aware of this relatively new development of sickness in holidays, so the help of your trade union might be sought - after firstly alerting your (ex) employer to the situation and the law as now stands."

And here is a further analysis of the case. You may find this helpful.

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2009/01/21/49084/paid-holiday-ecj-ruling-on-stringer-v-hmrc.html

The simple fact is, you are entitled by law to carry over your holiday!!!

I have been googling and reading up All day.i just gotta do it.... Help !

skintandscared_2

I honestly don't know what else could be more help than the advice on this thread? Print off the case and give it to your HR department, saying THIS IS THE LAW!

paddedjohn

SarEl wrote: »

Not if someone is on long term sickness absence. In these cases the employer can choose to pay rather than carry over (and it may, for someone who is not receiving sick pay, be preferable to them). It is only unlawful (since we are being pedantic here, it isn't illegal at all - this is civil law and not criminal law) to pay for untaken statutory leave as an alternative to being allowed to take the leave when someone could have taken the leave (i.e. not off sick, etc).

However, the principles established in Stringer and other cases are now under question again as the ECJ is being asked to consider further cases which re-open the question of whether people on long term sickness should accrue holiday at all, since the provisions for leave specifically state that these are to entitle employees to a break from work, and the argument is that since they are sick they are not working, and therefore should not accrue leave. Although no such case has yet been heard, there has been legal opinion from a senior judge in Europe that the argument has merit. It is therefore very likely that the principles already extablished in law will be challenged, and although it is likley to be a few years before the effects of this slide into legislation, very likely that changes will be made.

Not trying to pick holes in your statements but i still think employees cant receive money in place of leave even if its after a term of sick leave. You quote the 'stringer case' and i have seen it quoted many times on this site but this states that holidays can be carried over and if the employment is terminated after the sickness then they can be paid for, two different things.
The Long-Term Sick Employee.

In a long-running case bought by the HMRC against Stringer, it has been determined that where an employee who is on long-term sick leave, has been unable to take his/her normal holiday because of that sickness, then they are entitled to carry forward to the next year, any holiday missed as a result of that sickness. Further to that, if there is a termination of employment after the period of sickness, then there is an entitlement for remuneration in lieu of the missed holiday opportunity. In the event that the employer does not pay this entitlement, then a claim for non-payment of wages can be instigated through the normal channels. Some employers may not be aware of this relatively new development of sickness in holidays, so the help of your trade union might be sought - after firstly alerting your (ex) employer to the situation and the law as now stands."