House rental - problem with agency after 5 months - advice appreciated!

Babbler

Hello all,
Long story so bear with me... and excuse spelling as writing quicky!

Was going to go to citizens b with this one but thought Id get advice first...

Rented a house 5 months ago and it had a 6 month contract. At the time I asked if it would be rolling contract after that as the contract says 2 month notice required before leaving after the contract is up (i.e. after the 6 month?). Answer was yes.

Anyhow - had letter from agency asking if we wanted to stay and how long for (6 or 12 months). I sent them a polite complaint letter explaining it was my understanding that the contract would be rolling one. Also made lots of other complaints in the letter about their initial service and the cost (£190 for unmanaged let)(was told they would sort out suppliers but they only did half and then said they werent actually meant to do those anyway! Only found out when we got a red letter about electric!) (The previous tennant also keeps getting final notices here for his Gym/Insurance/Tax and they never told me he had bad credit!!).

Had a missed call from them on Monday and thought Id call back today as no one got back to me or left a message. The girl said "Oh yeah, we received your letter thanks. Please come in next week to sign the new contract and pay £59!" No apology or anything about the service/complaint!!

I replied - surprised - saying "I dont think so - we were not informed there would be a need to renew the contract - let alone charges!!"

The agent replied with "It was in the letter asking if you want to renew" (it wasnt - told her and that I would bring the letter in as proof!).

She went off and came back saying "Well, it should have been and you should have been informed. You will have to pay. We cant make one rule for you and then ask the landlord to still pay his part!".

I remained strong and said I dont think traiding standards would agree they can just bring up a charge without telling me! She eventually (after a fight from me) said "Fine - but you will be charged in 6 months to renew again. We will waive the fee this time and send the contract in the post". and hungup on me!

So I have 3 questions:

1) Is what they are doing legal?
2) Is the fee fair (£59 to come in and sign a piece of paper every 6 months!)
3) The landlord told us that he was happy with rolling contract but agency wasnt so to take it up with them. Agency said that if he was happy they were, so he is making excuses but they will check with him. Who do I beleive?

Makes me so mad! :mad: :mad: - Do they not have to justify/breakdown the fees? Like the whole bank thing thats come up recently?

PS- Also found out the girl I dealt with originally had been fired for making lots of mistakes. Typical!

rosysparkle

Do nothing and you will be on a periodic (month-by-month) tenancy from the expiry of the fixed term until either side gives notice. No renewal fees to pay and no further renewal in six months. Don't sign the renewal contract when it arrives. You will have less security of tenure, but you won't be charged.

(As an aside, renewal fees annoy me. We don't charge them for fully managed properties and only charge them to the landlord for a let-only property if they want a new contract drawn up).

WRT to letters you get for the previous tenant, return them all unopened to sender. You shouldn't open them.

The agency would not normally write to the utility suppliers for an unmanaged let.

Babbler

rosysparkle wrote:

Do nothing and you will be on a periodic (month-by-month) tenancy from the expiry of the fixed term until either side gives notice. No renewal fees to pay and no further renewal in six months. Don't sign the renewal contract when it arrives. You will have less security of tenure, but you won't be charged.

(As an aside, renewal fees annoy me. We don't charge them for fully managed properties and only charge them to the landlord for a let-only property if they want a new contract drawn up).

WRT to letters you get for the previous tenant, return them all unopened to sender. You shouldn't open them.

The agency would not normally write to the utility suppliers for an unmanaged let.

Thanks

I didnt think so about the utilities but I did ask - she insisted its them that do it! Probably why she was fired! Am beginning to wonder if we were charged the wrong fee as well!

I havent been opening the letter. I can see through the window what it says in bold :eek: - Also NTL tried to charge me for their debt and I got a letter "to the occupier" asking if I knew the whereabouts of the previous tennant (from returning the letters).

If I dont sign anything and they get annoyed Im a little worried they will just give me 2 months notice and Im stuffed then! :mad:

thesaint

If I dont sign anything and they get annoyed Im a little worried they will just give me 2 months notice and Im stuffed then!

If the landlord is happy to keep you, why would you get 2 months notice?
The agents would have to consult with the landlord first, they are obviously not happy because they aren't getting there fee every 6-12 months, ignore them.

franklee

rosysparkle wrote:

Do nothing and you will be on a periodic (month-by-month) tenancy from the expiry of the fixed term until either side gives notice. No renewal fees to pay and no further renewal in six months. Don't sign the renewal contract when it arrives. You will have less security of tenure, but you won't be charged.

All this is fine unless the agent has already given notice. It is common practise nowadays for agents, including yourself, to issue a Section 21 Notice requiring possession at the start of the tenancy. I would not recommend Babbler to go on to a periodic tenancy with an S21 in force so he needs to check to see if one was issued and get it revoked in writing. It may well be that the letter offering the extension is enough, so keep the letter, but get the S21 explicitly revoked to be on the safe side. (It's amazing how often agents/landlords that issue a S21 at the start forget to take it into account when giving advice to OPs like Babbler).

rosysparkle wrote:

(As an aside, renewal fees annoy me. We don't charge them for fully managed properties and only charge them to the landlord for a let-only property if they want a new contract drawn up).

Good for you, that's definitely something I look for in an agent. Just to add, the agent cannot charge for renewals if the tenant wasn't told of this at the outset, preferably with a written list of charges. The agent cannot make up new charges after the agreements have all been made!

chant1l

I suspect that the landlord won't be aware and would not be a fan of charging for renewal of a tenancy. For the agents £59 he stands to lose a tenant with all the associated costs and losses (one of the many reasons I havent used agencies for years). Should you stay in the property without signing you will be on a periodic tenancy, and only if the landlord really wants it will you be evicted by him, unlikely if you are an ok tenant. I cannot imagine him evicting you because you won't pay the agent £59!
Get on to landregistry.org and get his home address and write to him explaining that you are totally happy with EVERYTHING but the agent and his surprise fee, chances are he will sort them out himself (mention that they are rude to you).
Good luck!

thesaint

All this is fine unless the agent has already given notice. It is common practise nowadays for agents, including yourself, to issue a Section 21 Notice requiring possession at the start of the tenancy. I would not recommend Babbler to go on to a periodic tenancy with an S21 in force so he needs to check to see if one was issued and get it revoked in writing. It may well be that the letter offering the extension is enough, so keep the letter, but get the S21 explicitly revoked to be on the safe side. (It's amazing how often agents/landlords that issue a S21 at the start forget to take it into account when giving advice to OPs like Babbler).

There was enough information in the original post to say that a S21 was not issued. The agent had even said that the O.P. had received notice to renew. in the original letter, which had not been done.

An agent who is not being paid is extremely unlikely to spend more time issuing a notice revoking a S21(assuming one is in place), when like you stated, it is not necessary.

Babbler

Sorry to sound stupid but what is an S21? I dont think we have that...

I have the landlords address/number. He said he was happy to carry on - until he spoke to the agents. Think they seem to have talked him into us signing again. One or the other is lying (sawying towards agency at this time...).

I will write him a letter. Just cant believe this has happened as have rented for the last 10 years and never had a problem! Think I should name and shame the agency in our local radio "rip off files"...

thesaint

A section 21 is basically a letter giving you notice to leave. If you had one, it would be quite clear, and the agents would have alluded to it in the conversations you have had with them.

The Agents would've scared the landlord by misrepresenting his position.
If the S21 has not been issued, I would do nothing, otherwise they would simply issue you with one.

Contact the landlord directly and let him know that you are happy to stay there and will pay month by month and give him the necessary notice if you decide to leave.

franklee

thesaint wrote:

There was enough information in the original post to say that a S21 was not issued. The agent had even said that the O.P. had received notice to renew. in the original letter, which had not been done.

Not if Babbler didn't realise what the S21 was or has forgotten it was issued. In the rush of moving in there is so much to do it is very easy for the tenant not to realise what the S21 is. A typical example is here, Kuztardd didn't realise the notice had been served until a couple of us suggested he check:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=4085953&postcount=34

So Babbler, it is worth checking through all the paperwork you were given at the start to make sure there isn't a S21 notice.

thesaint wrote:

An agent who is not being paid is extremely unlikely to spend more time issuing a notice revoking a S21(assuming one is in place), when like you stated, it is not necessary.

Well then the landlord can write it. Besides the agent should do as the landlord instructs. often landlords don't realise that the agent has issued the S21 either. One of the reasons agents issue it is to prevent the tenant remaining on a periodic tenancy and thus make them pay renewal fees!