Royal Mail driving me NUTS!

LisaB85

Quite often me or my sister will order things online which have been delivered by all kinds of companies and most will not forge a signature if needed or leave it on the door step (they use their initiative and leave it in the shed or out of sight)

The only ones causing problems are Royal Mail, in 3 weeks they have just left 6 parcels on the door step including signing for recorded items themselves. I'm lucky as their is a 6foot fence but it is by no means a secure place.

Surely signing that a customer has received a parcel when they have left it on the doorstep is a form of fraud?

They do it to next door too and on occasion we have seen the postman and offered to take the parcel indoors and sign for it as being received yet he refuses and says will sign and leave it in their garden.

Would anyone have a leg to stand on making a claim if a parcel went missing and it had a signature to say it was delivered?

I know some will argue that they are doing a favor but they aren't, I would rather they leave a card and for me to collect from my local post office than have to spend weeks chasing up an item I have ordered that has gone missing.

I complained to Royal Mail about this earlier this year and didn't get real response and clearly nothing has been done as the problem continues. Does anyone know how to get them to take this seriously?

newbie1980

i believe a post man lost his job earlier this year for this
you need to keep pursuing the complaints dept at royal mail

Jissurfung

I'd keep a good eye on this. We hold an account with royal mail at work and post around 3,000 items a day and we always come across this problem. Unless its your signature then they don't have a leg to stand on. But annoyingly they make it a very long winded huge process to reclaim from them if the parcel is lost or damaged which is why most companies just re post stuff. If the item is sent "signed for" then the item can be signed for by anyone at that address or someone close by. But the person that's signed becomes responsible for that parcel until the addresse has it. If you despute this with them then you can claim from royal mail and they will take it up with the police if they feel someone has stolen it. When an item is sent signed for your sending it to an address as such rather than a person. If its sent tracked or special delivery then the post man must have the item signed for by the person that it's addressed to on the parcel. At the moment if you're not at home there is an option for the postman to leave the item in a safeplace, write that safe place on a card and put it through your letterbox. This is about to change at royal mail and soon they will no longer be allowed to do this. You can write a letter to your local post office In the mean time and state that you do not have a safe place and do not want post left with a neighbor. Tell them that you have previously had stuff stolen.


Edit: did the postman leave a card saying it was left in a safe place? Did he not leave a card at all? If he didn't then type your tracking code in online and see what comes up as the "electronic proof of delivery". If there isn't a signature then you can claim from the royal mail and say you never recieved the item. They wouldn't have a leg to stand on. If its the postmans signature then he is responsible for that parcel until you have actually personally recieved that parcel. If he signed for it and you never recieved it it wouldn't matter where he left it. He will be liable for it. Unless you have stated to them that your doorstep is a safe place to leave parcels

That's the experience I've had with customers and the royal mail anyway.
Let me know how it goes with telling them you do not have a safe place and do not wish for parcels to be left with neighbors.

arcon5

LisaB85 wrote: »

Quite often me or my sister will order things online which have been delivered by all kinds of companies and most will not forge a signature if needed or leave it on the door step (they use their initiative and leave it in the shed or out of sight)

The only ones causing problems are Royal Mail, in 3 weeks they have just left 6 parcels on the door step including signing for recorded items themselves. I'm lucky as their is a 6foot fence but it is by no means a secure place.

Surely signing that a customer has received a parcel when they have left it on the doorstep is a form of fraud?

They do it to next door too and on occasion we have seen the postman and offered to take the parcel indoors and sign for it as being received yet he refuses and says will sign and leave it in their garden.

Would anyone have a leg to stand on making a claim if a parcel went missing and it had a signature to say it was delivered?

I know some will argue that they are doing a favor but they aren't, I would rather they leave a card and for me to collect from my local post office than have to spend weeks chasing up an item I have ordered that has gone missing.

I complained to Royal Mail about this earlier this year and didn't get real response and clearly nothing has been done as the problem continues. Does anyone know how to get them to take this seriously?

haha, RoyalMail take a complain seriously? gotta be joking right.

I had a complaint about the service at a depot near me last year & needed clarity of a question, sent two emails & telephoned to chase it up, got the usual response 'all complaints are taken seriously. Your query has been passed on to the relevant team at your depot'. In my lasy email I advised without an answer I will no longer be using their services (I wasn't one of their biggest customers, but was spending about £6k/yr so not particualrly negligable amount of money) -- so did just that, now spend about about £600/yr.

arcon5

Jissurfung wrote: »

I'd keep a good eye on this. We hold an account with royal mail at work and post around 3,000 items a day and we always come across this problem. Unless its your signature then they don't have a leg to stand on. But annoyingly they make it a very long winded huge process to reclaim from them if the parcel is lost or damaged which is why most companies just re post stuff. If the item is sent "signed for" then the item can be signed for by anyone at that address or someone close by. But the person that's signed becomes responsible for that parcel. If you despute this with them then you can claim from royal mail and they will take it up with the police if they feel someone has stolen it. When an item is sent signed for your sending it to an address as such rather than a person. If its sent tracked or special delivery then the post man must have the item signed for by the person that it's addressed to on the parcel. At the moment if you're not at home there is an option for the postman to leave the item in a safeplace, write that safe place on a card and put it through your letterbox. This is about to change at royal mail and soon they will no longer be allowed to do this. You can write a letter to your local post office In the mean time and state that you do not have a safe place and do not want post left with a neighbor. Tell them that you have previously had stuff stolen.

actually, if the parcel is left with somene else (even a neighbough) then its for you the company to recify, not for the customer to claim from the RM. Your contracted to deliver the parcel to the customer, not to a nearby address. It would be you as the retailer who would potentially have a claim against whomever is holding the parcel.

Jissurfung

arcon5 wrote: »

actually, if the parcel is left with somene else (even a neighbough) then its for you the company to recify, not for the customer to claim from the RM. Your contracted to deliver the parcel to the customer, not to a nearby address. It would be you as the retailer who would potentially have a claim against whomever is holding the parcel.

Correct. When we have a case of item not recieved it is up to ourselfs to resolve it as we posted the item. But the claims process involves both parties and can be initiated by either the sender of reciever. Royal mail would then look a the proof of delivery and take action on who it was signed by. This process takes around 4-5weeks.

Jissurfung

And I might be wrong with this but this is as far as I understand:
If a customer buys a product from a website and is given sufficient information to make their choice on what type of delivery to purchase, insured, signed for, next day delivery times, terms and conditions of each service etc... Then isn't the buyer reliable if the parcel goes missing if they didn't choose to pay to have the item sent insured? As they chose to take the risk? I'm asking not debating. I might be wrong

candystripedlegs

Jissurfung wrote: »

And I might be wrong with this but this is as far as I understand:
Then isn't the buyer reliable if the parcel goes missing if they didn't choose to pay to have the item sent insured? As they chose to take the risk? I'm asking not debating. I might be wrong

I've always wondered this in relation to things like ebay. It does seem confusing.

vuvuzela

Jissurfung wrote: »

And I might be wrong with this but this is as far as I understand:
If a customer buys a product from a website and is given sufficient information to make their choice on what type of delivery to purchase, insured, signed for, next day delivery times, terms and conditions of each service etc... Then isn't the buyer reliable if the parcel goes missing if they didn't choose to pay to have the item sent insured? As they chose to take the risk? I'm asking not debating. I might be wrong

The customer is not liable. They have paid the sender to have the parcel delivered to them and until it gets to them, it is the responsibility of the sender. An intelligent sender will not give the customer a choice that includes an uninsured option

arcon5

Jissurfung wrote: »

And I might be wrong with this but this is as far as I understand:
If a customer buys a product from a website and is given sufficient information to make their choice on what type of delivery to purchase, insured, signed for, next day delivery times, terms and conditions of each service etc... Then isn't the buyer reliable if the parcel goes missing if they didn't choose to pay to have the item sent insured? As they chose to take the risk? I'm asking not debating. I might be wrong

candystripedlegs wrote: »

I've always wondered this in relation to things like ebay. It does seem confusing.

no, not correct i'm afraid.

Doesn't matter what level of cover or what service the buyer selects... the retailer is responsible for ensuring they fulfil their side of the contract -- if the buyer doesn't receive the goods then they haven't fulfilled this.

The signature/insurance/ect side of things is more so protection for the retailer against fraudulent claims or protection against genuinely lost cases.

Glad to clear that up

arcon5

Jissurfung wrote: »

Correct. When we have a case of item not recieved it is up to ourselfs to resolve it as we posted the item. But the claims process involves both parties and can be initiated by either the sender of reciever. Royal mail would then look a the proof of delivery and take action on who it was signed by. This process takes around 4-5weeks.

The only problem is the contract for delivery is between retailer and carrier -- the buyer can request a refund/cancellation at anytime and the refund must be provided within 30 days -- irrespective of whether you can or have claimed from the carrier or not.

I know what you mean about the RM process though!