NPower using seasonal ity table to calculate gas consumption.

pipkin71

Hi.

Had my gas bill this morning and followed advice on back of bill to calculate kWh and the totals just didn't add up.

Phoned CS and the woman explained that where it says on the back of the bill to divide by 3.6, they no longer do that, and now use a seasonality table so that those using less gas now pay more for it - she actually said that, I kid you not!:mad:

The sum you divide by to give total kWh is as follows

Jan - 13.9
Feb - 13.6
Mar - 12.2
Apr - 9.8
May - 7.1
Jun - 4.2
Jul - 2.4
Aug - 2.4
Sept - 4.2
Oct - 7.3
Nov - 10.3
Dec - 12.7

So basically, with NPower, in the summer months when you are not using as much gas, you will be paying more for what you do use.

Are other gas companies using the same methods?

I'm seriously thinking it's time to switch suppliers.

Cardew

I am not sure what point you are making!

On any Direct Debit tariff, the principle is that you spread the cost over a year in 12 monthly payments. So you pay(in theory) 8.33% of your total bill each month.

So in the summer months you pay more than you consume and in the winter months less.

If you pay quarterly you pay for what you consume(in arrears)

Can you explain what you feel is wrong, as all of the companies have the same principle.

pipkin71

This is nothing to do with direct debit.

The seasonality table charges you more money for the less gas you use, whether that's in summer or winter.

NPower estimated I had used 239.00 unit and the bill was set at £232.18. In actual fact, I had used 92.00 units, but the bill will now be £131 - so although I used less than half their estimated units, I wont be charged half because I am being charged more in comparison for using less.

Cardew

What do you mean by units? Are these the units on an Imperial meter or a Metric meter.

Is this a pre-payment meter?

You pay according to the amount of kWh you consume.

Unless you pay a daily standing charge, all customers for most companies(except Ebico) pay more for the first units you use(tier 1) and then less for the rest(tier 2). This applies for both gas and electricity.

So in that sense everyone pays more(per kWh) for lower levels of consumption.

pipkin71

Ok.

My meter is measured in cubic feet. It's not pre-payment or token - just standard meter.

On the back of the bill, it gives you advice on how to calculate the gas that's been used. So, take your units, multiply by 2.83 to convert to cubic metres. Then multiply by calorific value and correction factor then divide by 3.6 to give kWh used.

When I checked this, it didn't tally, so I rang NPower who told me, they no longer divide by the 3.6, rather they use the figures for each month that I quoted above, and therefore the price you pay will be different each month depending on what they divide your units by - so in January they divide by 13.8, in June they divide by 4.2, August 2.4 increasing the cost of everyone's gas consumption in the months they use less.

I see what you mean about the two tiers as I've been charged 4.412 and 2.492, but the seasonality table increases the kWh before they charge unit prices.

If I used 50 units in Jan, that would convert to 412.93kWh
If I used 50 units in Aug, that would convert to 2374.3kWh - a big difference!

Same amount of units, but seasonality table division is 13.8 compared to 2.4 and 2374.3kWh will cost more than 412.93kWh even with the two tier system.

If all companies do this, not a lot I can do, but if it's just NPower, I will look at changing.

Cardew

Thanks for this.

What NPower told you is a nonsense; or you have misunderstood. A kWh of gas is a kWh of gas - period.

The only variable on gas is the calorific value and this only makes a very small percentage difference to the kWh value of a unit of gas - be it an Imperial meter(1 unit = 100 cu ft) or a Metric meter(1 unit = 1 cu mtr)

The gas supplied to you from the gas supply pipe is exactly the same gas regardless of you paying BG, Npower, Powergen etc. It is a nonsense to suggest that a unit of gas can vary in the kWh it contains by a factor of 600% or so.

To calculate from your gas units to kWh use this:

http://energylinx.co.uk/gas_meter_conversion.html

92 units on an Imperial meter, depending on the calorific value, will be somewhere between 2,900 and 3000 kWh.



Perhaps if you post some more details we can work out what is happening.

pipkin71

Thanks cardew.

I had honestly never heard of this before and the divisable figure for each month is what the NPower representative gave me today.

Right, my meter reads in cubic feet - it has four numbers, so the reading was 1162.

NPower swaps this to cubic meters, and to do so they take the number of units used - the last reading taken from the new reading - say 100 units.

The following info is given on the back of your bill:

Take the units used [100] and multiply by 2.83, then multiply this number by the correction factor and calorific value [both shown on the front of the bill].

Then the info tells you to divide by 3.6 to give kWh used. The NPower rep quite clearly said they are no longer dividing by 3.6 but by different figures for each month. I wrote these down as she said them and posted them in post #1.

Looking at your link, she must have got it wrong, but the figures on my bill don't tally with the info on the back and the seasonality table was her reason for this.

I definitely didn't misunderstand her, but perhaps she is mistaken because I could not believe what she was saying, and when I questioned her she said we will be charged more in the months we use less gas but we don't pay a standing charge.

I will phone NPower again tomorrow and re-query what I was told, because like you say that shouldn't be right - which is why I posted on here originally.

Apologies if it took a while before I made sense

Regards
Pipkin xxx

pipkin71

using your link as a guide cardew, I typed in the estimated units used on the bill I received today.

The bill estimates that I used 239.00 cu ft which they say = 7.566 kWh. On energylink, when I typed in 239.00 they = it to 2,716kWh - clearly a big difference. So, how do I figure out what's what?

masonic

pipkin71 wrote:

The bill estimates that I used 239.00 cu ft which they say = 7.566 kWh. On energylink, when I typed in 239.00 they = it to 2,716kWh - clearly a big difference. So, how do I figure out what's what?

I think you put your figure in the box for cubic metres. When I put your figure into the box for cubic feet (using my postcode), I get an energy value of 7685 kWh, which is pretty close to what NPower have quoted.

Cardew

masonic has explained the mistake you have made.

NPower have estimated that you have used 239 units on an Imperial meter(1 unit = 100cu ft) which(correctly) is approx 7,600kWh.

If you enter 239 units in the box for a metric meter then you will get 2,716kWh.. You needed to have scrolled down the energylink page for the correct section for an Imperial meter.
P.S.
If you note the time of this post, I am not an insomniac – I am on a different time zone for much of the year

Haza

The calculation for converting Ft3 to kWh, with npower, is variable. I have checked my bills and have come to the same values.

Using the correction factor and calorific value quoted on each bill and the method outlined by npower to calculate your kWh useage. The values do not match the kWh useage values quoted on my bills. The value of 3.6, give by npower, to divide the m3 usage to convert to kWh does vary from month to month!!!??

1kWh = 3.60MJ. This is where the dividing by 3.6 comes from so why should it vary?:mad:

I am not sure if this is common practice for energy companies, but it does suggest that you cannot trust just the unit rate to compare gas prices between companies if this value varies as much as I can see!

The link http://energylinx.co.uk/gas_meter_conversion.html calculates using the same method as npower suggest, but the values still do not match (Using the ft3 to kWh conversion) the useage on my bills month to month, but do match my own calculation.

For 313ft3 I calculate 4113kWh with npower quoted calorific value of 39.0507. Npwoer bill comes to 4109kWh? In my case it appear that npower have undercharged my for the amount I have used over the last year. In some month they have serverely miss calculated, so I'm not going to shout too loud.;)

If I were you I'd just check how it has varied over a year before asking npower too much!

You would think these conversion values were more strictly regulated? Where can we check this?

HAZA