Ethical question

VfM4meplse

Zelazny wrote: »

Good idea - I'd feel bad, but it works. Thank you :-)

As an employer I would be livid, having invested in the recruitment process and then induction. If this is a reasonably professional role that requires some acclimatisation, bear in mind that at that stage you are taking more than you are contributing, and that your actions could be particularly damaging in a small team that is already under capacity pressures. Of course it's a different story if it's stacking shelves in a supermarket. My point is that you need to make a judgement and be fair. If you feel bad, it's probably with good reason. Would you want someone to do the same to you?

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

The first company will frown upon you.

This is the understatement, esp if your area of work is specialist and everyone knows everyone else. This happened to a counterpart of mine in another organisation, he gave a new recruit a chance and was told by him 5 days after joining that he would be leaving becuase he was offered another job elsewhere. Another close colleague was particularly embarrassed after supplying a glowing reference! - it has reflected particularly poorly on his professional credibility too. I personally wouldn't touch the individual concerned with a bargepole.

janealb

I think it's perfectly ok to go for the second job as long as you are sure it's be best thing for you. Changing your mind after a couple of months would look abit strange but then again...most of the times it's worth taking risks!

heretolearn_2

As an employer, this is a pain in the bum, and it is quite annoying. It has happened to us a couple of times recently. And people on here get annoyed with being rejected for jobs as 'overqualified'. It's the 'overqualified' people who do this. We no longer recruit on 'who is best for the role', we just can't afford to, we have to recruit on 'who is ok for the role and going to stay put for a year or so'.

But...on a personal level, of course you should do it. You have to think of number one in this world, and it's not really such a terrible thing to do. You shouldn't turn down one job on the off chance of getting the second - what are you going to do if the second one doesn't come through after all?

(Not like someone else on here who took a new job with relocation package and left a couple of weeks later, and now wants to take the employer to a tribunal as they deducted the relocation package from his last salary! Now that really was taking the mick.)

TrickyWicky

I've done it before, these days employers are just as happy to axe staff as staff are to walk so I wouldn't worry about it.

Hezzawithkids

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

The first company will frown upon you.
If everything works out fine with the second job and you stay there for years then that won't be a problem.
But if it all falls through with the second job a few months down the line then you will be either wanting your old job back or wanting a decent reference from them. If you messed them around they might not be too happy with either.

Difficult one.

If everyone took the view that they won't change jobs because of the risk of it not working out a few months down the line then nobody would ever move anywhere ever! And I've never heard of an ex-employee in that situation going back to a previous employer and asking for their old job back.

The OP is trying to improve his future job prospects by going for a better/higher paid job elsewhere, something that happens every minute of every day. Give him a break. He won't be messing his current employer around so long as he follows procedure and leaves on good terms. BTW employers aren't allowed to give "bad" references so that's a non-starter as a argument. And speaking as a past employer myself, if I "frowned on" every subordinate or employee who resigned to go to a better job than my blood pressure would be through the roof by now! It happens, they'll get over it.

And I wish the OP luck in whatever he decides to do

JimmyTheWig

Hezzawithkids wrote: »

If everyone took the view that they won't change jobs because of the risk of it not working out a few months down the line then nobody would ever move anywhere ever!

My point wasn't that he shouldn't leave the company, just that if he leaves the company right after taking up a new position with the company then they won't be impressed which could have consequences later on.

Uncertain

Hezzawithkids wrote: »

BTW employers aren't allowed to give "bad" references so that's a non-starter as a argument.

Oh for heaven's sake!

Is this another piece of advice you got from the "expert on employment law" you quoted on the other thread?

So that two absolute gems that are completely and utterly wrong.

You can say anything you like in a reference as long as it is true and not deliberately misleading.

For what it is worth I agree with the rest of your post - that is where you are expressing an opinion rather than quoting "fact"!

Errata

Why would anyone want to work for a company that takes weeks post interview to make a job offer?

Zelazny

VfM4meplse wrote: »

As an employer I would be livid, having invested in the recruitment process and then induction. If this is a reasonably professional role that requires some acclimatisation, bear in mind that at that stage you are taking more than you are contributing, and that your actions could be particularly damaging in a small team that is already under capacity pressures. Of course it's a different story if it's stacking shelves in a supermarket. My point is that you need to make a judgement and be fair. If you feel bad, it's probably with good reason. Would you want someone to do the same to you?

This is the understatement, esp if your area of work is specialist and everyone knows everyone else. This happened to a counterpart of mine in another organisation, he gave a new recruit a chance and was told by him 5 days after joining that he would be leaving becuase he was offered another job elsewhere. Another close colleague was particularly embarrassed after supplying a glowing reference! - it has reflected particularly poorly on his professional credibility too. I personally wouldn't touch the individual concerned with a bargepole.

I'll have to continue working in my current department for the notice period of three months anyhow - by which time I'll definitely know what's happening about the other job. I'll not be taking anything from the new team, other than maybe a couple of weeks that they could have asked someone else to hand in their notice in.

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

My point wasn't that he shouldn't leave the company, just that if he leaves the company right after taking up a new position with the company then they won't be impressed which could have consequences later on.

I'd be handing in my notice before I took up the new position, either way - and chances are that they'd then simply have me stay where I am and get someone else in to do the job.

Errata wrote: »

Why would anyone want to work for a company that takes weeks post interview to make a job offer?

I've had the interview, but if it went well then they want me to come back for some tests and a possible further interview. I only had the first interview this week and will hear about the further stuff early next week.

So it's not that they take weeks, as such - just that they have more than a simple interview to determine who gets the job.

I'm going to talk to the manager who offered me the job internally today and ask if he has any idea about the salary. I'll also explain that I have had an interview elsewhere, but that I'd rather work for him (which is true) - however personal circumstances mean that if the other job is offered to me with significantly better pay then I'll have to take it (unless they can match the pay).

I'm not sure how he'll take it, but would rather be upfront about the matter - will post later with an update.

kennyvinegar

heretolearn wrote: »

(Not like someone else on here who took a new job with relocation package and left a couple of weeks later, and now wants to take the employer to a tribunal as they deducted the relocation package from his last salary! Now that really was taking the mick.)

Thanks for mentioning me on here, heretolearn. Just to fill everyone else in on the story - I didn't say I wanted to take the empolyer to a tribunal, I just asked what my legal rights were to the money as they hadn't included anything about relocation in the contract of employment. I have not asked for the money back, but certain people on here are acting like I've already filed a case against them.

Anyway, this isn't my thread (so before you say shut up then, you felt the need to mention it). Zelazny - I was recently in the same situation, I was being interviewed for 3 jobs at once, one company of which was a lot quicker in the recruitment process than the other. I'd been looking to relocate (for about a year), so I took the 1st job that was offered to me, as I wasn't guaranteed the other jobs. After I'd started the 1st job, I was offered one of the other jobs, which was better for me all round. I felt terrible about it, but I told my boss as soon as I could, giving him more than the contractual notice (which was only a week).

Everyone I'd spoken to about it said you have to do what is right for you, and my boss understood the situation. Yes it's not great for the company, but it's also not your fault. They wouldn't hesitate to make you redundant if they had to.