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callinginthetroops
Posts: 14 Forumite
Hi All
Newly registered to this to pass on a situation I find myself in and have an idea of routes to take but would be intereseted to get other peoples views including experts.
Service Charge - I live in an a apartment and pay a service charge to a leasehold company. They sent letters advising me of the service charge to be paid for the year 2010-2011. I dont get all letters from everyone as where I live, the housing builder built the letterboxes on the outside of the block of the flats instead of inside which is more secure and the amount of times it has been broken into is ridicoulous. Other people refuse to mend theirs and the doors simply flap in the wind. Anyway, I didnt have the money to pay at that time but had discussed it with my then partner who said she would look to pay and so gave her the payment details of the service charge.
After that I didnt hear no more from the leasehold management company. This week, my sister sent me a text. For personal reasons which I do not want to discuss, the relationship with my family, which includes my parents and my sister has broken down in the past two years and although me and my sister have recently began to communicate, the matter is still a thorny issue. She let me know that my dad had recieved a letter addressed to him at his address stating that Service Charge is payable for the year 2010-2011 ON MY PROPERTY! Taken aback by this slightly I text her to ask her to repeat what she had just said. And she replied the same thing. A firm of solicitors had written to my dad (who shares the same name as myself) stating that unless payment is made, a ccj would be issued in his name and attached were the subsequent court documents. I text back to say that it sounds like the documents are mine but I didnt understand as I had made the payment but even more, I didnt understand why my dad had become embroiled in it and why a firm of solicitors had sent the form to him. I have not lived at that property for over 20 years and that property is 100% unconnected to the property that I live in now. I text her to say somewhere somehow someone has made an enourmous mess and I would say for him not to worry. She replied thats just it, he is worried and I am worried for his health - he is sat there shaking and crying worrying about losing his house, and worrying about the grandchildren losing their family home.
At this point, I too began to cry. I couldnt understand it. How had my father been served with court papers for my property and why was my property under the subject of a ccj. I had recieved no letters for months about anything wrong with my account. I recieved the solicitor details and case number from my sister and immeditally I rang the solicitor firm. I am holiday this week away and do not need this at all.
The solicitor was a trainee lawyer and she answered the phone when I asked to be put through to her. I first enquired as to why legal papers were being sent out in relation to arrears on my property as far as I was aware, I had paid - she said no payment had been recieved but I should speak to my leasehold company over this. I then proceeded to ask her why she had served papers on my father at his address. She did not ask for the case number, instead went on to say its not my fault, I just do what the client asks, we must deal with hundereds of these cases and I cant check everyone. I said now I dont know too much about legal matters (to which quite rudely she butted in, obvioussly!, which I decided to ignore, I wasnt after playing childish games, certainly not with a professional person such as a lawyer) but something serious has occured here - you have served my father with court paperwork at his address demanding payment be made for service charges at his property - this is wrong 100% from a legal matter - she stated that the court papers would have been for me? Although I had established this, I have nothing to do with the property my father lives in and my current property is absolutly not connected with my current property and I cant work out how they bridged a connection but as it stands the only person legally living at the property the court papers were sent to with the name on the letter.....was my father. She advised me to telephone my leasehold company.
Therefore, that is exactly what I did. I was put throught to the credit control department and asked was it true no payment was ever recived for this account to which the person on the line said yes and demands for payment had been sent out in the post. I said, are you sure as I have never recieved any demands from your company. She looked at her system and advised that as from March 2010, they had changed my address correspondence to that of my parents. Totally bewildered, totally confused, totally shocked and totally angered, I asked WHY? The person replied that I had not always answered letters to them in the past and so they reverted to the DVLA for a car that had been left in my parking space untaxed which I could not drive as the vehicle was in his name, date of birth etc). The car was subsequently moved prior to March 2010 when I was on speaking terms with my family but my leasehold company decided for reaons only known to themselves that from March 2010, they would no longer send any documents etc to my property address but now instead to the my fathers address! I was amazed. It got more shocking as it went on.
I asked why my father had recieved the documents then. The lady replied that the documents would not be for him but for me. I said, but I do live there, the only legal person living their in that name is my father. I asked can she sent out an apology please and state that the documents are in fact not for my father as my sister had advised me of his situation (a sistuation for no fault of my own I felt so terrible so awful - sure there was a problem with the account but his property I keep repeating is unconnected to me).
The worst situation is had my sister not made contact and had my new number recently, this situation could have been a lot worse and whereas I was now working my dammed hardest to ensure nothing untowards comes my fathers way in form of ccj, it could so easily have happened - a breach of his Human Rights.
The lady on the other line refused to send out an apology to my father and I stated that without this letter, he will be sitting at home with an official document saying in so many days, he will have a ccj to his name - without paperwork to say otherwise and STATE this I cant imagine what he must be going through.
Getting nowhere with this, I decided at this point that I would leave it to a regulatory body whether it be the solicitor who sends out the apology letter or the leasehold, two bodies I will be making contact with are the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Leasehold Advisory Organisation. I will also advise on my sister on how to complete the claim form my father has recieved to send it back to court.
I then enquired about my situation - the lady put me on hold and phoned throuigh to the solicitor and came back and advised that court documents would also have been servied at the property I live in now. Being on holiday but not something I share with anyone who I dont know, I said I have not chekced yet. I asked why no other documents had been sent to me to advise me and she said all other documentss had been sent to the address of my father, documents which I have never been told about due to the situation. I asked given this situation that I was being treated differently to other resdients - I had been issued with court documents subjecting me to a ccj without any prior warning letters - she insisted the letters sent to my fathers address counted!!! I said no, I am not connected there, I live here, pay my council tax here. She confirmed her position and would not budge. Not only was my fathers Human Rights being breached recieveing unsolicted court documents but mine also. My neighbour would have so letters warning of court action. I apparently cant have that due to their fundamental error. I asked why they did not send letters if that was the case that they ASSUMED my fathers address was my address, to both addresses, something that the person held their hand up to being their mistake. I cannot afford mistakes. We finished our conversation getting nowhere.
I did later on phone back the solicitors - I felt I had the upper hand so although tempered I was funnily enough calm and smiling. I was put through to the trainee lawyer who had issued my fathers court documents and asked would she and her solicitors send an apology to my father as he was going out of his mind with worry. She said no and kept saying no, she spoke over me and I spoke over her. She said if you continue to speak over me I will put the phone down! Next thing she put the phone down! Bemused I telephoned back. The receptioisit put me through to her but then the receptionsit came back and said she is busy! I said can I speak then to the director of the firm whose name the company is. She said NO and slammed the phone down!
Well, I phoned back. Wouldnt you? I was put through to a gentleman this time and I asked are your Mr $$$$$, the direcotor. The gentleman on the line started to shout in a comical voice - YOU SWORE AT EMMA, APOLOGISE, APOLGISE APOLOGISE!! I said sorry sir, can you repeat what you just said. He began to shout almost singing APOLOGISE APOLOGISE APOLOGISE. You couldnt believe how shocked I was at this, first, that a lawyer, a professional lawyer had in fact lied ??? It took me a few seconds to comprehend the situation but I stayed calm considering this awafil situation that was playing out on the phone - I said if anyone should apolgise sir, it should be members of your staff for slamming the phone down on me unreasonably - I did ask was he the director but he continued to shout and sing APOLOGISE APOLOGISE then proceeded to tell me he was putting me on loudspeaker? Whether I was on loud speaker or not, I calmy stated that I was taken aback by this sitaution and that the actions of the gentleman was that of a four year old, not a professional lawyer. As silence remained in the background, I decided to hang up and make notes straight away. To think that I will be facing these people in court.
I apologise about the length of this forum post and hope you kept up and also any spelling mistakes but I just typed and typed and typed and hopefully made any changes as I went.
My question is what would be your advise in this situation. When I arrive home, if court documents are in my post box, I will reply and (I have already phoned the court in question to check my position) I will reply asking them to adjourn the court date as I believe judgement is entered if no documents are returned automatically, whilst I prepare a defence - I will admit to owning any monies related to my service charge but no extra money added as a result of my leasehold changing at their discretion my correspondence address. I will also be stating that my Human Rights have been breached - do you agree? I am after all being treated different.
Many Many Thanks for reading and any replies.....
Newly registered to this to pass on a situation I find myself in and have an idea of routes to take but would be intereseted to get other peoples views including experts.
Service Charge - I live in an a apartment and pay a service charge to a leasehold company. They sent letters advising me of the service charge to be paid for the year 2010-2011. I dont get all letters from everyone as where I live, the housing builder built the letterboxes on the outside of the block of the flats instead of inside which is more secure and the amount of times it has been broken into is ridicoulous. Other people refuse to mend theirs and the doors simply flap in the wind. Anyway, I didnt have the money to pay at that time but had discussed it with my then partner who said she would look to pay and so gave her the payment details of the service charge.
After that I didnt hear no more from the leasehold management company. This week, my sister sent me a text. For personal reasons which I do not want to discuss, the relationship with my family, which includes my parents and my sister has broken down in the past two years and although me and my sister have recently began to communicate, the matter is still a thorny issue. She let me know that my dad had recieved a letter addressed to him at his address stating that Service Charge is payable for the year 2010-2011 ON MY PROPERTY! Taken aback by this slightly I text her to ask her to repeat what she had just said. And she replied the same thing. A firm of solicitors had written to my dad (who shares the same name as myself) stating that unless payment is made, a ccj would be issued in his name and attached were the subsequent court documents. I text back to say that it sounds like the documents are mine but I didnt understand as I had made the payment but even more, I didnt understand why my dad had become embroiled in it and why a firm of solicitors had sent the form to him. I have not lived at that property for over 20 years and that property is 100% unconnected to the property that I live in now. I text her to say somewhere somehow someone has made an enourmous mess and I would say for him not to worry. She replied thats just it, he is worried and I am worried for his health - he is sat there shaking and crying worrying about losing his house, and worrying about the grandchildren losing their family home.
At this point, I too began to cry. I couldnt understand it. How had my father been served with court papers for my property and why was my property under the subject of a ccj. I had recieved no letters for months about anything wrong with my account. I recieved the solicitor details and case number from my sister and immeditally I rang the solicitor firm. I am holiday this week away and do not need this at all.
The solicitor was a trainee lawyer and she answered the phone when I asked to be put through to her. I first enquired as to why legal papers were being sent out in relation to arrears on my property as far as I was aware, I had paid - she said no payment had been recieved but I should speak to my leasehold company over this. I then proceeded to ask her why she had served papers on my father at his address. She did not ask for the case number, instead went on to say its not my fault, I just do what the client asks, we must deal with hundereds of these cases and I cant check everyone. I said now I dont know too much about legal matters (to which quite rudely she butted in, obvioussly!, which I decided to ignore, I wasnt after playing childish games, certainly not with a professional person such as a lawyer) but something serious has occured here - you have served my father with court paperwork at his address demanding payment be made for service charges at his property - this is wrong 100% from a legal matter - she stated that the court papers would have been for me? Although I had established this, I have nothing to do with the property my father lives in and my current property is absolutly not connected with my current property and I cant work out how they bridged a connection but as it stands the only person legally living at the property the court papers were sent to with the name on the letter.....was my father. She advised me to telephone my leasehold company.
Therefore, that is exactly what I did. I was put throught to the credit control department and asked was it true no payment was ever recived for this account to which the person on the line said yes and demands for payment had been sent out in the post. I said, are you sure as I have never recieved any demands from your company. She looked at her system and advised that as from March 2010, they had changed my address correspondence to that of my parents. Totally bewildered, totally confused, totally shocked and totally angered, I asked WHY? The person replied that I had not always answered letters to them in the past and so they reverted to the DVLA for a car that had been left in my parking space untaxed which I could not drive as the vehicle was in his name, date of birth etc). The car was subsequently moved prior to March 2010 when I was on speaking terms with my family but my leasehold company decided for reaons only known to themselves that from March 2010, they would no longer send any documents etc to my property address but now instead to the my fathers address! I was amazed. It got more shocking as it went on.
I asked why my father had recieved the documents then. The lady replied that the documents would not be for him but for me. I said, but I do live there, the only legal person living their in that name is my father. I asked can she sent out an apology please and state that the documents are in fact not for my father as my sister had advised me of his situation (a sistuation for no fault of my own I felt so terrible so awful - sure there was a problem with the account but his property I keep repeating is unconnected to me).
The worst situation is had my sister not made contact and had my new number recently, this situation could have been a lot worse and whereas I was now working my dammed hardest to ensure nothing untowards comes my fathers way in form of ccj, it could so easily have happened - a breach of his Human Rights.
The lady on the other line refused to send out an apology to my father and I stated that without this letter, he will be sitting at home with an official document saying in so many days, he will have a ccj to his name - without paperwork to say otherwise and STATE this I cant imagine what he must be going through.
Getting nowhere with this, I decided at this point that I would leave it to a regulatory body whether it be the solicitor who sends out the apology letter or the leasehold, two bodies I will be making contact with are the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Leasehold Advisory Organisation. I will also advise on my sister on how to complete the claim form my father has recieved to send it back to court.
I then enquired about my situation - the lady put me on hold and phoned throuigh to the solicitor and came back and advised that court documents would also have been servied at the property I live in now. Being on holiday but not something I share with anyone who I dont know, I said I have not chekced yet. I asked why no other documents had been sent to me to advise me and she said all other documentss had been sent to the address of my father, documents which I have never been told about due to the situation. I asked given this situation that I was being treated differently to other resdients - I had been issued with court documents subjecting me to a ccj without any prior warning letters - she insisted the letters sent to my fathers address counted!!! I said no, I am not connected there, I live here, pay my council tax here. She confirmed her position and would not budge. Not only was my fathers Human Rights being breached recieveing unsolicted court documents but mine also. My neighbour would have so letters warning of court action. I apparently cant have that due to their fundamental error. I asked why they did not send letters if that was the case that they ASSUMED my fathers address was my address, to both addresses, something that the person held their hand up to being their mistake. I cannot afford mistakes. We finished our conversation getting nowhere.
I did later on phone back the solicitors - I felt I had the upper hand so although tempered I was funnily enough calm and smiling. I was put through to the trainee lawyer who had issued my fathers court documents and asked would she and her solicitors send an apology to my father as he was going out of his mind with worry. She said no and kept saying no, she spoke over me and I spoke over her. She said if you continue to speak over me I will put the phone down! Next thing she put the phone down! Bemused I telephoned back. The receptioisit put me through to her but then the receptionsit came back and said she is busy! I said can I speak then to the director of the firm whose name the company is. She said NO and slammed the phone down!
Well, I phoned back. Wouldnt you? I was put through to a gentleman this time and I asked are your Mr $$$$$, the direcotor. The gentleman on the line started to shout in a comical voice - YOU SWORE AT EMMA, APOLOGISE, APOLGISE APOLOGISE!! I said sorry sir, can you repeat what you just said. He began to shout almost singing APOLOGISE APOLOGISE APOLOGISE. You couldnt believe how shocked I was at this, first, that a lawyer, a professional lawyer had in fact lied ??? It took me a few seconds to comprehend the situation but I stayed calm considering this awafil situation that was playing out on the phone - I said if anyone should apolgise sir, it should be members of your staff for slamming the phone down on me unreasonably - I did ask was he the director but he continued to shout and sing APOLOGISE APOLOGISE then proceeded to tell me he was putting me on loudspeaker? Whether I was on loud speaker or not, I calmy stated that I was taken aback by this sitaution and that the actions of the gentleman was that of a four year old, not a professional lawyer. As silence remained in the background, I decided to hang up and make notes straight away. To think that I will be facing these people in court.
I apologise about the length of this forum post and hope you kept up and also any spelling mistakes but I just typed and typed and typed and hopefully made any changes as I went.
My question is what would be your advise in this situation. When I arrive home, if court documents are in my post box, I will reply and (I have already phoned the court in question to check my position) I will reply asking them to adjourn the court date as I believe judgement is entered if no documents are returned automatically, whilst I prepare a defence - I will admit to owning any monies related to my service charge but no extra money added as a result of my leasehold changing at their discretion my correspondence address. I will also be stating that my Human Rights have been breached - do you agree? I am after all being treated different.
Many Many Thanks for reading and any replies.....
0
Comments
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2 separate issues. You will do well to keep them quite separate.
- Whether or not your service charge has been paid. Write and ask for an explanation in writing
- The unacceptable harassment of your father. Seek advice from the Information Commissioner. It appears to me that they are probably in breach of various data protection principles.
Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0 -
I'm going to be blunt here -
- That was horrifically difficult to read.
- Half of this seems overblown and hyped up for maximum drama.
- You have contradicted yourself throughout the post.
- Crying 'human rights' isn't going to stop you getting a CCJ for service charge arrears.
Can I recommend that you go through your post and bullet point the important stuff and cut out the narrative.
There are several things which make no sense in your post:
- You repeatedly state you are not connected to your father's property and in the next breath say you have a car registered there with the DVLA, this connects you to your father's property. Which is it?
- Who the papers are addressed to. Do you and your father share an initial or first name? Has your father mistakenly opened post thats actually addressed to you? Its not clear at all.
- What does your partner say about all this since she was supposed to be paying the charge?
- As a grown up why haven't you ensured this payment is being made? / wondered why you haven't had service charge demands in the post before now?0 -
As I read that, it was OP's father's car in OP's parking space. I surmise OP's leasehold company did a DVLA trace and came up with a name and address and jumped to a conclusion.- You repeatedly state you are not connected to your father's property and in the next breath say you have a car registered there with the DVLA, this connects you to your father's property. Which is it?
Whether or not OP has dealt with the charges correctly, how the leasehold company have gone about this is entirely unacceptable.Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0 -
1. All your dad would have had to do was go to the court and explain he didn't live at your address and therefore couldn't owe the money. His rent book'd do it. Drama llama much? If a debt company gets no reply at an address they will try and trace other addresses for people so they can serve court documents.
2. Pay the damn debt and all this stops. What's stopping you?
3. What *exact* human right do you think has been breached? quote me the relevant part of the convention. I dare you.Debt free 4th April 2007.
New house. Bigger mortgage. MFWB after I have my buffer cash in place.0 -
DVardysShadow wrote:how the leasehold company have gone about this is entirely unacceptable.
I'm simply just not sure we can come to that conclusion from the OP's post, there are a lot of unanswered questions and the way parts of it have been hyped up and important information glossed over, I really do wonder whether its the whole story or not.
Leasehold companies don't just leap to issuing CCJ's, the cost (somewhere in the region of £600 all in?) has to be justified to other leaseholders as that cost is paid from service charge and may not be recovered as part of the CCJ, which suggests the arrears are substantial. To even get a court date I'm sure they would have to demonstrate that the case had some merit, at the hearing the Leasehold company would have to prove that they had pursued the debt and validate why they had written to each address on file.0 -
thanks @ moromir
yes no i admit to the post being a bit muddled, first time i have written one out so appreciate the feedback on bullet points - certainly not hyped though, assure you that. just some points on things you raised:- You repeatedly state you are not connected to your father's property and in the next breath say you have a car registered there with the DVLA, this connects you to your father's property. Which is it - the car is in my fathers name, date of birth, i stated that in my post.
- Who the papers are addressed to. Do you and your father share an initial or first name? Has your father mistakenly opened post thats actually addressed to you? Its not clear at all - my father has exactly the same name and in this instance has opened post addressed to his address as he would be expected to with a letter bearing his name his address. I do not live there.
- What does your partner say about all this since she was supposed to be paying the charge? - have stated this, she was my then partner, i have text her since all this but she hasnt replied and somehow dont think she will, sadly
- - As a grown up why haven't you ensured this payment is being made? / wondered why you haven't had service charge demands in the post before now? - my then partner said she would pay for me, this was ages ago and the leasehold company have not written to my address, for what reason would i not believe it hadnt been paid? its not for me to question if a company isnt sending out mail, i dont think any of us do that, we go to our postbox we pick up our mail, open it, deal with it and if like me, get on with our busy lives where to have any spare time in the day is a delight!
human rights? of course. human rights is about being treated equal. two people go to court for the same reason. person a has had the 7 letters sent to their property before the leasehold company took them to court (i say 7 letters as this is how many were sent out to my fathers property), i did ask the leasehold lady were the leasehold management company governed by any legal profession and she said no. anyway, my neighbour gets 7 letters and warnings. i on the other hand, get none - therefore i am being treated differently.0 -
I agree that OP's account must have been very delinquent. But for me that does not excuse them, their agents and solicitors serving papers on someone who is nothing to do with it. No one little bit.I'm simply just not sure we can come to that conclusion from the OP's post, there are a lot of unanswered questions and the way parts of it have been hyped up and important information glossed over, I really do wonder whether its the whole story or not.
Leasehold companies don't just leap to issuing CCJ's, the cost (somewhere in the region of £600 all in?) has to be justified to other leaseholders as that cost is paid from service charge and may not be recovered as part of the CCJ, which suggests the arrears are substantial. To even get a court date I'm sure they would have to demonstrate that the case had some merit, at the hearing the Leasehold company would have to prove that they had pursued the debt and validate why they had written to each address on file.Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0 -
thanks @dvardysshadow - yes, i do intend only to get involved now with everything in writing - after Fridays episode with the awful situation with the solicitors firm ive no choice - and thanks for reading my post correct unlike others, it was a but mumbled but i appreciate that0
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Again, which exact part of the ECHR do you feel has been breached? You're on a hiding to nothing taking this one to Strasbourg, I promise.Debt free 4th April 2007.
New house. Bigger mortgage. MFWB after I have my buffer cash in place.0 -
thanks @emmzi
theres no problems in sending out papers to another address but the same papers should still be sent to my address. why should my father who is elderly and has been ill have to do all this? all he requires is a letter of the solicitor firm saying we apologise and the ccj is not being served on you. sadly we all respond diffrent to letters recieved and he is off a different generation - also rent book? he has a mortgage.
me pay the money? i will, ive said that - what im not prepared to pay is any charges added as a result of 'ignoring the letters' and the solicitoir court costs and court costs which these alone amount to £140? why should i. its not fair
human rights ? i will have a look at the releavant act but being treated differently is a case to answer and the act clearlt defines this
I can see that some peoples replies are thinking im trying to avoid payment? Can I state that these people who reply please not reply as I wont answering to these people after this post.
There are two issues - court documents issued to a wrong person and no offer of an apology to confirm that this is not the case AND Im not prepared to pay charges for letters ignored that I wasnt being told about. Yet I will be making payment of the service charge.0
This discussion has been closed.
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