problems with a joint endowment, it should have been transferred to my name

geordie_e

Hi all

First off, brilliant forum. spent the last few days reading through all the posts.

I need some advice please. here is a summary of facts

Married Feb 1991 ( I was serving in the Army we both lived in married quaters, wife left army to look after 2 children born 1991 and 1993).
1996 we separated, I continued in the army living in barracks, wife took the 2 children and at first rented, then bought her own property.
Sep 2000 divorce absolute.
May 2001 Clean break order signed by both parties, neither having any further future claims.

Since separating, I have paid her £300 rising to £350 at one point, reduced it to £200 when I was unemployed after leaving the army (it was only for 4 months) then re-started paying her £300.
3 years ago I lost my job and was unable to gain employment so the monthly maintenance was reduced to £200, due to the reduction I happily agreed to continue paying this amount till the youngest reached 18 (at that point the eldest was 19 and working full time).
I also kept 2 endowment's going for the children and when they reached 18 I handed them 7k each.

so thats the facts and now onto the problem

When we first married we took out a joint endowment policy for 30k ( I have paid every contribution and my ex paid nothing towards that one, or indeed the children's policy).
We opted for the policy to stay in both names in case of death but for the policy to be transferred to my name as the sole legal right on cashing it in or it maturing. I felt this was better in case I was to die I was quite happy for her to have the money in lieu of maintenance.
so my broker was instructed to perform the deed of assignment, this was also written into the statement of facts prior to the divorce.

So 2 weeks ago I rang Prudential to cash the policy in (lets face it, endowment policy's are going nowhere these days).
It turns out that the policy is still in joint names, so I forward all the divorce paperwork to Prudential and received a letter back saying, no deed was ever completed and I will have to see a solicitor to overrule this.

So I rang my broker and explained it all, it turns out that my ex signed the paperwork but didn't get it witnessed, so they returned the deed back to her for completion and she never returned it or it never arrived back.
I asked why wasn't I informed of this and all I got back from the broker was "Sorry" !

So I rang up my ex and explained, straight away she says "yes I will sign it but I want half the money", this resulted in a big argument. with her slamming down the phone !

So where do I go from here ? I've asked the broker to re-send the deed of assignment but I don't think she will sign it.

Also I have an army pension (which at the time of the divorce she didn't want any of it but I think now she hears what other wifes have got I get constant threats about going for a claim on my pension). So can she claim on my pension despite having a clean break order in place?

Thanks for taking your time in reading this long thread

holly_hobby

The insurance co can only pay the benefit to the noted beneficiaries/assignees - which at the present time is yourself and your ex, so their hands are legally tied at this point I'm afraid.

Your ex accepts that she failed to complete the legal requirements at the time of intended administration, but it appears now on reflection she is not happy for you to entirely benefit from any surrender or cash payment (not arrising as a result of death).

This is an issue to be taken and dealt with by a Family Law Solicitor (CAB offer free advice, and do have duty solicitors to give you a handle on how this may be resolved, before entering into fee based advice). Take with you all your divorce docs, evidence of agreeements etc, and seek their and legal intervention, as I don't believe from the contents of your post, that this will be resolved amicably - which is unfortunate but the issue at hand to be dealt with.

Hope this helps ... good luck

Holly

geordie_e

Thanks Holly

Im just peeved that she has gone back on her word !
She did sign the deed of assignment but failed to get it witnessed, broker sent it back to her and never heard from her since ! (this is from the brokers file on this).

Best start looking for a family lawyer then :mad:

Cheers

holly_hobby

geordie_e wrote: »

Thanks Holly

Im just peeved that she has gone back on her word !
She did sign the deed of assignment but failed to get it witnessed, broker sent it back to her and never heard from her since ! (this is from the brokers file on this).

Best start looking for a family lawyer then :mad:

Cheers

You may want to approach the broker for assistance with any legal costs incurred, as a result of their negligence in failing to chase the completed document, and conclude the assignment as directed. (you can ask, they can say no ... but its certainly worth presenting the argument if it will reduce your costs)

I know it must be incredibly frustrating, but keep your head and go through the correct channels to obtain resolution.

Holly x

geordie_e

Hi Holly

I have spoken in great lengths to the broker, who states the blame lies with me for not ensuring this was followed through.

All he offered to do was to get a deed of assignment sent to my ex and hope that she will sign it... so I will give it a week and see if it has been returned (which I doubt it will).

Thanks
geordie

Bettie

geordie_e wrote: »

Hi all

so my broker was instructed to perform the deed of assignment, this was also written into the statement of facts prior to the divorce.

So 2 weeks ago I rang Prudential to cash the policy in (lets face it, endowment policy's are going nowhere these days).
It turns out that the policy is still in joint names, so I forward all the divorce paperwork to Prudential and received a letter back saying, no deed was ever completed and I will have to see a solicitor to overrule this.

Can't help you but thought I would add that I too had an endowment that was in joint names assigned to me by a solicitor and when it came to the pay off Prudential sent it to pay off my mortgage. I was cross that no one told me that would happen and as I had overpaid my mortgage the surplus was to go to both of us. I had to drag him to Nationwide to sign his consent that it went to me. Good job we were still on speaking terms and he recognised what was fair.

geordie_e

Were on ok speaking terms (as long as it benefits her)
but the moment I mentioned the endowment, she wanted half, despite the fact it had been agreed at the time of the divorce that I would leave in joint names so if I died then she would get the death pay out.
The policy payment was to remain my soul property.

I am tempted to give her a small amount in exchange for signing the documents (would rather do without the hassle of lawyers)

Cheers
Geordie

Bettie

geordie_e wrote: »

I am tempted to give her a small amount in exchange for signing the documents (would rather do without the hassle of lawyers)

Cheers
Geordie

I was so sweet and took him out for a meal and gave him a bit of the money as I guided him to Nationwide. :rotfl:
Yes it may be better to pay her something rather than the legal route.

holly_hobby

geordie_e wrote: »

Hi Holly

I have spoken in great lengths to the broker, who states the blame lies with me for not ensuring this was followed through.

All he offered to do was to get a deed of assignment sent to my ex and hope that she will sign it... so I will give it a week and see if it has been returned (which I doubt it will).

Thanks
geordie

I did suspect he may claim this, in essence yes it is ultimately your responsibility to ensure the assignment took place, but there is certainly a degree of negligence evidenced on their part, in failing to complete the assignment, or advise you there was an issue (of course they will be loathe to admit it for obvious reasons, but it does appear that the file was simply put away without a diary note, and essentially forgotten !).

If you choose to resolve without 3rd party involvement, there are various issues you will need to resolve.

I.e - In its current format, the proceeds from the policy will be payable in joint names (either into a joint account or by a joint cheque) - although in some cases I do know payment has been made directly to the premium paying bank account, but you can't take a chance that will happen.

So I would contact the provider to establish what docs they will require in order to process payment in 2 separate names and of differing amounts. That will forearm you with what you need to have your ex sign, to avoid delays and further complications in receiving payment under the arrangement.

Hope this helps

Holly

geordie_e

Hi Holly

Well this was meant to have been done in 1997, so all the broker is saying is the staff that dealt with this have now left !

Of course they have apologized but this doesn't get the matter resolved lol

This is the reply of Prudential (after having sent of copies of clean break and letter covering the sole rights to the endowment).

"We not that you wish to assign the above plan in your sole name. we confirm that we will need a deed of assignment to assign the plan and we do not provide the deed of assignment forms. we would suggest that you should contact your solicitors who may be able to help by drafting a suitable deed for your needs, Once this has been completed, please send this to us for noting"

However, broker has contacted Prudential and they do indeed supply the deed ! as for my solicitors I used the Army legal section to deal with my divorce and financial settlement. Having left nearly 10 years ago I dont think they will want to help me lol

Going to chat to her tomorrow, though I am loathed to give her anything (because I always and continue to support the children, even though they are now in their twenties).

Will update you on any outcomes

Thanks
geordie

dunstonh

It would be very harsh to put this at the door of the broker. I would look more at the solicitor as they are there to ensure everything is done. All cases where I have dealt with divorces have seen the solicitor chase or ask for confirmation of things being done.

The solicitor is the one that finally tells you when everything is complete.