Savings and income support

chopra

Do they (DWP)hv the power to look in to your bank accounts etc without your permission?

My 2 sons are in University & they were spending their loans stupidly so me & my wife put that £20000 loans(in 4 years) in to our accounts & bonds etc. Now they have found that out & hv stopped my benefit, even though I hd written proof that the money was from Loan company & banks free overdrafts for student etc

After stopping my IS, now they want my permission to go through all my accounts, which I have declined (was I right in declining?)

Again my question is do (DWP)hv the power to look in to my bank accounts etc without my permission?

Would really appreciate any help. Also how likely they are to prosecute me or take the matter further or would they be just happy with the result of stopping my I. support

Fran

Chopper -

I would get immediate advise from your local Citizens Advice Bureau. You may have a job persuading the DWP of your intentions whatever you meant by them. Your sons are presumably over 18 and so are non-dependants as far as the DWP are concerned so are nothing to do with your claim for IS. Had you considered the interest that the money will make, the DWP would need to know about this "income" too.

The DWP do now have the powers to look at your accounts and savings if they suspect you of fraud, which in this case it looks like they are considering. Fraud is a criminal offence so you really do need advice urgently.

If you can't get this sorted out quickly what are you and your wife going to live on?

By refusing to let them look at your accounts you are only prolonging getting any benefits reinstated.

chopra

<sup>Chopper -

I would get immediate advise from your local Citizens Advice Bureau. You may have a job persuading the DWP of your intentions whatever you meant by them. Your sons are presumably over 18 and so are non-dependants as far as the DWP are concerned so are nothing to do with your claim for IS. Had you considered the interest that the money will make, the DWP would need to know about this "income" too.

The DWP do now have the powers to look at your accounts and savings if they suspect you of fraud, which in this case it looks like they are considering. Fraud is a criminal offence so you really do need advice urgently.

If you can't get this sorted out quickly what are you and your wife going to live on?

By refusing to let them look at your accounts you are only prolonging getting any benefits reinstated.</sup>

Thanks Fran,
At the interview yesterday, I told them straight away that i hv £20000 & my sons r paying about 2.3% for their loans while we r getting about 3-3.5% (my income) although they only knew about £3000 bond

I wud be suspected of fraud if I tried to hide the facts, which I hvn't

Luckily one of my son is doing PHD & gets about £10000 pa so we can just about manage but my main worry is as to what do they normally wud do next. Putting my fraud officer hat, I m likely to think that in case of prosecution, Chooper will prove the source of money & magistrate wud look sympthatically so what's the point of prosecution (wishful thinking!!!!)

They told me that if I don't give them permission then they hv to apply to some other dept., which can delay everything by months (so i m presuming that most probably permission is only given on serious fraud cases, (another logical wishful thinking)
Thanks again,Fran. did go to Citizens Advice Bureau this morning but they only operate for 2 days/wk. do u hv any experience of this or were u also basing it on logic

chopra

Hi Ted & Fran,
Further to my post, following is from DWS website, please help me to get a goodnghts sleep tonight!!

[tt]In order to comply with provisions in the Human Rights Act 1998, these powers should be used as a last resort. Authorised Officers will be able to use them only where it is necessary to do so. This means that they must first consider whether the information is needed in order to uncover the facts. If the Authorised Officer decides that it is, they must then consider whether there are other less intrusive means of obtaining the information. This will include deciding whether the claimant should be approached in the first instance.[/tt]

Fran

Chopper -

The thing is that you have already witheld info from them by not declaring £20,000 in your accounts etc., so as far as they are concerned you have not disclosed the facts, also you are not letting them have access to your accounts willingly (which makes it look more suspicious).

Though you seem to think that in a fraud case you would be looked favourably on, it doesn't alter the fact that if you are on Income Support they tell you that you have to declare income - which you haven't.

I don't understand the relevance of your son's PHD money - are you saying that you and your wife will live off your son's money if you can't get benefits? (Hardly seems right!)

Until proven otherwise, this is a potential serious fraud case as you have money and they are not happy with the fact you didn't declare it. They will get permission to look at your accounts because you are denying them access and they suspect you of fraud. As fraud is a criminal offence, I think you should take it very seriously.

I'm not sure what your question means about "basing it on logic". If you mean do I have experience of fraud, I used to work in CABx and have experience of looking through information to do with it and experience of distressed clients who have been accused of fraud. Also, based on "logic", you haven't declared the income, that's the important point.

Did you read the link that Ted replied with on the other thread about fraud?

In my opinion, you absolutely need to get advice on this and as urgently as possible. I suggest getting back to CAB, and get there about quarter of an hour before they open.

Fran

Chopper -

I've just read the additional post (above my last one). If you have denied them access to your accounts I would guess that you fall into the category where they can chase you through other methods. Sorry, I can't see that good night's sleep.

chopra

Thakyou to both of you. I guess it will hv to be few stiff drinks tonight but how long can I keep on drinking? I'm off to CAB tomorrow
Re living off my sons earnings, well we hv maintained them for last 23 yrs so what if he looks after us for a year or so cause getting a job at 57 will take some time

Thanks again

Fran

So was your original intention of putting the £20,000 money intended for your sons' education in your account in order that you have money to live on because:

well we hv maintained them for last 23 yrs so what if he looks after us for a year or so cause getting a job at 57 will take some time

?

In your original post you said the money was in your account because:

they were spending their loans stupidly

.

I'm beginning to despair of you Chopper!

chopra

Fran, I m sorry if I didn't made it clear, We hd only taken their loan money to keep it safe & let them hv it when it comes for them to buy a house etc, when they finished their studies

The second quote that we will live off him till I find a job was in reply to your querry
"If you can't get this sorted out quickly what are you and your wife going to live on?

While at CAB, did u hv many cases like this on "savings" & what was normally the outcome i.e. how many times they prosecuted (% wise) or were they happy just to stop the benefits



BTW how do u people put other persons quote in a box?

Fran

Chopper -

I've no idea about any CAB figures - it would all be from memory anyway which is not very reliable!

To quote someone, go to their post where you want to quote from. Click "quote" and a box appears similar to the reply box. Put your comments underneath their quote (which is in your reply box now) as you would normally when replying, and post.

Good luck at CAB.