Pension Age Going Up and Strikes Public Sector

gadgetmind

zagfles wrote: »

Tony Blair said the biggest mistake of his first term was not over-indexing the state pension

Given the vast array of huge mistakes he made, it seems odd that he should choose that one!

Through all the cuts, the state pension remains fully intact and the only talk is of increasing it, rather than reducing it.

I'm prepared to hope for the best but I'm also going to plan for the worst.

zagfles

gadgetmind wrote: »

Given the vast array of huge mistakes he made, it seems odd that he should choose that one!

Exactly - it shows how politically sensitive the state pension is. There is no logical reason why pensioners should get a real terms rise when inflation is 1% but not when inflation is 3%.

The tabloid headlines were bulls**t - one showed a bag of peanuts as a demonstration of what pensioners would be able to afford with the rise. But as the rise was simply an inflation rise, as it had been since the 80's - they weren't supposed to be able to afford anything extra with it - it was just a rise to keep up with the cost of living!

So the 2.5% minimum is simply a protection against adverse tabloid headlines, nothing else! That's how politically sensitive the state pension is, and I think the main reason no govt would dare adversely interfere with it.

Wobblydeb

gadgetmind wrote: »

This was the bit I wasn't aware of. Do you have a link regards size/date/contributions? I'm not saying that companies contributing is a bad thing, but they should do it to retain staff rather than because they're forced to.

Forced to is okay in my book! I work for a small company that doesn't contribute anything, and I'm looking forward to getting 4% from them in future. They retain staff because it is a) a job and b) a nice place to work.

candykisses wrote: »

What worries me, if I start paying £300 a month to a pension then in a two or three years time start to struggle to find that amount, will the pension be a waste of time if I have to reduce contribitions. Like the one I started a couple of years ago, paid just over £100 per month into it for a couple of years then had to freeze it. Presumably it would be practically worthless now - I can't get any money out of it - would I be best starting to add to that one, or start complete afresh.

Also, my partner has a final salary scheme pension, which he paid into for five years until he was made redundant. Nothing has been done with that since 2007 - ie no more added to it and someone told us that it would probably not be worth anything now.

Every bit of money that you put away for your pension will be worth something in the future. If you can afford to put £300 in now, then do that, and if you have to stop again, so be it.

I currently have 4 pensions floating around behind me. I make sure they have my up to date address and I get an annual statement updating the expected value. None of them on their own are worth much, but added together they start to become an amount I could live off in future. The smallest doesn't have much in it and would pay me about £30 per month if I bought an annuity now. But if you add all 4 together I'm looking at £625 a month to keep me in my old age ..... and I plan on putting in more each month while I am lucky enough to be employed and able to put some money away.

MikeR71

I can't believe some of the stuff I am reading here. It's quite disgusting and disgraceful to see so many people take the side of the government on this issue. I think you people make sheep proud and offended to be associated with you.

The most important workers in the society (teachers, nurses, firemen, policemen etc.) are being screwed and yet some seem to be cheering it on, as if they have some sort of grudge against anyone who is promised a pension that the average person working in the private sector can not get. Instead of pushing big private businesses to pay their staff a decent salary and pension, you are arguing for the public sector to have less than they were contractually promised, under some misguided notion of fairness.

It seems some of you have bought into the propaganda that there is no money to sustain the pension. The fact is that most public sector pension pots are in credit. It is also a fact that the rise in contributions will not be going into a pension pot, but into government coffers to waste in various pursuits, I don't know, perhaps fight another illegal war somewhere or send aid to India.

Only today we were told that big businesses have got away with around £25 billion unpaid taxes last year. Who is making up this shortfall if not the public sector who is being asked to take a pay and pension cut? Yet big business is always defended. We are told they have to be protected because they do good for the economy by employing people. How about doing good for the economy and paying your effing taxes like anyone else? We are also told they will not look favourably upon remaining in the UK if taxes are too high. Well then eff off to Germany, France or Sweden and see whether you can dodge £25 billion worth of tax in those countries!

Anyway, this is quite shameful. Those of you who have turned so viciously on the public sector, how shortsighted are you? Today it's the public sector and who knows who is next. In a few years time when the quality of services suffer, who will you be whining to then? How about when there will be a huge number of poverty stricken elderly? At that time just remember these days, and how you supported the shafting of the same people you depend on for so much.

mystic_trev

MikeR71 wrote: »

The fact is that most public sector pension pots are in credit.

No they're not, most are unfunded - same as the State Pension.

gadgetmind

MikeR71 wrote: »

The most important workers in the society (teachers, nurses, firemen, policemen etc.) are being screwed

No, they aren't. Just like everyone else, they will have to pay a little bit more and work a little bit longer. Even after these changes, their pensions will still be massively better than most others can only dream of.

It seems some of you have bought into the propaganda that there is no money to sustain the pension.

Unless action is taken now, there won't be. Take a look at Greece and Italy if you want to see what awaits countries that try to continue with unaffordably generous pension schemes.

How about when there will be a huge number of poverty stricken elderly?

Those in the public sector will not be "poverty stricken", far from it, but it's a risk that many private sector workers face.

Anyway, this is quite shameful.

I can see no shame in supporting actions that are both fair and prudent.

atush

Mike, you are wrong we are not Cheering it on. More like we know it has to happen.

Even with the proposed changes, public sector workers will continue to be better off in retirement than most private sector workers. Period. Many with jobs like nurses would have to have over 600,000 in a private pension pot to be equivalent to what the pension received will be. Which is not the kind of figure you see private sector workers getting on an equivalent salary. That is the size of pension pots of only high paid senior management on salaries 4 times that or more of a nurse.

I think it is you who have been listening to propaganda from your unions.

Koicarp

atush wrote: »

Even with the proposed changes, public sector workers will continue to be better off in retirement than most private sector workers. Period. Many with jobs like nurses would have to have over 600,000 in a private pension pot to be equivalent to what the pension received will be. Which is not the kind of figure you see private sector workers getting on an equivalent salary.

Can you show your working please Atush? I've put the figures for my NHS pension on the "update" thread. Pension is 16.5k for a band 7 nurse currently earning 37k. Are you sure I would need 600K to get that?

atush

you have to take into acct the index linking, the cash lump sum, and the survivors benefits. All these cost money, and lower the original starting annuity.

A level annuity, no SB for 100K would be only 4-5K per year. If index linked, it would go way down to 2-3K. times it.

I got htis form a newpaper, but as you can see the figures stack up.

gadgetmind

Koicarp wrote: »

Can you show your working please Atush? I've put the figures for my NHS pension on the "update" thread. Pension is 16.5k for a band 7 nurse currently earning 37k. Are you sure I would need 600K to get that?

That £600k looks a little high to me, but only about maybe 20% off, which another drop in gilt yields could easily bridge.

However, as someone who needs to fund their own pension won't have a clue how their investments will do over the decades, they need to aim high as the markets are pretty torrid, gilt yields low/unpredictable, and the government interfere with private pensions even more than public sector ones.