Are PPCs valid if you actually were driving?

rhythmsoup

Hello folks,

I have read a lot of very good information on this forum, and I have one simple question which I wondering:

If person X was driving a car and parked in a car park which had adequate signage, and stayed over the allowed time, so in other words they had entered the car park and definitely breached the so called rules. Would the PPC be just as un-enforcable as all the other posters on here?

I ask as most other folks it seems were not driving or there was unadequate signage or similar.

Trebor16

Thje answer you seek is yes. They cannot fine you as they have no legal power to do so. All they can claim for is any legitimate costs or damages they have incurred by the overstay and nothing more.

bargepole

Trebor16 wrote: »

Thje answer you seek is yes. They cannot fine you as they have no legal power to do so. All they can claim for is any legitimate costs or damages they have incurred by the overstay and nothing more.

It isn't quite as clear cut as that, unfortunately.

If it goes to Court, and there is no dispute over who was driving or signage, the PPC will argue that you saw the signs, and by parking there you agreed to the terms and conditions of the contract.

They may also argue that their charge of £80 or whatever represents a pre-estimate of losses, comprising the DVLA fee, writing letters and chasing the alleged debt.

Some Judges will accept this view, and rule in favour of the claimant - it can all be a lottery depending on which County Court, which Judge, and whether he/she had some chocolate hobnobs with the morning coffee.

Fortunately, very few PPCs will take it to a Court hearing, as it's not cost effective to be chasing all over the country, using solicitors etc. for such small sums (the exception being Perky, who gets off on this stuff).

This is also one of the (many) areas where the forthcoming Protection of Freedoms Bill (Schedule 4) falls down: there is no definition of what constitutes a legimate PPC charge - is it just the £1 or £2 you pay for parking, or does it include penalties for overstaying, parking outside the bay etc., because these can be argued to be unlawful under Contract Law.

The whole situation is as clear as mud.

rhythmsoup

Reading the article from this site here, it seems that there is a catch all a person can argue in so much as that the fee claimed is unreasonable. So in the case where the signage and person driving is not in dispute then only the catch all is a worthy argument.

If indeed such an incident ever goes to court.

Coupon-mad

I wouldn't pore over that article as it's about 3 years old and doesn't cover all the many reasons why a PPC would lose in court in almost every case. There are loads of reasons why PPCs lose but I won't spell them out here as PPCs infest this forum (hello Peter Hasbeen, one typical Court loser and forum troll who trawls through posts here and sometimes sends sneaky PMs to newbies pretending he can help them).

And as you say, it's only relevant if indeed the PPC goes to Court. Most would not go near a Small Claims Court, even 'big' players like Euro Car Parks and NCP never do Court.

Kite2010

If person X paid for 1 hour, but was in fact 1 hour 10 minutes, the landowners damages would be 1/6th of the published hourly tariff (so say 1 hour parking was 60p, the damages would be 10p).

PPCs rarely do court and even when they do, vast majority of the time they lose (or redraw proceedings)

robredz

Legal action to recoup pennies would be vexatious, and if it was an overstay in a free car park losses apart from admin to take to court would nada, zilch, a big fat zero, so the £80 would stand naked bereft of any cover as the unlawful penalty it is.