Tenant's notice on periodic tenancy

azure2444

Hello, I have a problem with my notice period on my assured shorthold tenancy and I wonder if anyone can advise me?

I have an assured shorthold tenancy which has lapsed into a periodic tenancy. I pay the rent monthly on the 22nd of the month. My tenancy agreement says nothing whatsoever about notice periods. There is a clause on p1 which says that this agreement is intended to create an assured shorthold tenancy, but that's it.

I'd like to give a month's notice to end my tenancy in early January. My landlord and the lettings agent is saying I must end it on 22 January - ie a clear month right up to the end of the one month period.

However this extra 2-3 weeks is going to cost me hundreds of pounds as I'll already be paying rent on my new place. I don't understand why I can't give a standard one month's notice and be done with it.

I've asked the lettings agent to show me where it says I can only terminate my agreement on the rent due date but he can't find it.

To complicate matters a bit more, the government advice leaflet 'Notice you must leave - a brief guide for landlords and tenants' (sorry I'm a new user so wasn't allowed to post the link) says:

"There is no provision in existing legislation requiring a
tenant to give notice to their landlord should they wish to
end the tenancy. A tenant's obligation to give notice, the
amount of notice they need to give and the way in which
this notice is served, is a matter for the landlord and the
tenant to agree between them at the outset of the
tenancy and such information should be included in a
written tenancy agreement.
and
If the tenant is a periodic tenant, any notice they must
give, its length and how it should be served, will be at the
discretion of the landlord. Any notice given by the tenant
should reasonably bring the tenancy to an end at the end
of a complete period of the tenancy (for example, at the
end of a month, if the tenancy is by the month) although
this requirement should be stated clearly in the tenancy
agreement. If the tenancy agreement is silent on any of the
above issues, this is likely to be regarded as the tenant
having been given no obligation to provide notice."

which seems pretty clear, however nowhere else can I find this advice. Do I really not have an obligation to give any notice whatsoever if the tenancy agreement is silent on this? Or can I just give my one month notice to end between rent payment dates?

Help please! Thanks

DVardysShadow

First things first. You have gone periodic, so this may seem irrelevant, but what were the dates of the assured term? This will indicate when your rental month begins and ends. You must give 1 month's notice minimum, to end at the end of a rental month.

N79

The day you pay rent is irrelevent. What is important is the last day of your tenancy fixed period. The following day will be the first day of periodic tenancy. All subsequent periods will start on the same date each month. Your notice (which must be a minimum of 1 month) must end on the last day of a tenancy period.

To make it clear here is an example.

A 6 month tenancy starts on the 3rd January. The fixed term ends on the 2nd July. Each subsequent monthly period starts on the 3rd of each month, and finishes on the 2nd. If this tenancy was running now, notice SERVED today (or any day before the 3rd December) would end the tenancy on the 2 January. Notice served on the 4th December would expire on the 3rd February.

If you are still confused post your tenancy start date and fixed period lenght and someone will post when notice served tomorrow would expire.

Any variation from the above requires the agreement of the LL.

azure2444

Thanks very much for the responses.

22nd of the month is the date the rental started, for 6 months, then after that we pay on 22nd of every month monthly. The end of the fixed period was 21st of the month 6 months after the start.

Why does the government leaflet (perhaps someone else could post the link for me?) state very clearly otherwise? It says if the tenancy agreement is silent on the issue it is likely to be regarded that I have no obligation to give notice.

Here are my specific dates. Start 22 sept 2009. End 21 mar 2010. I'd like to leave 4 jan 2012. Hope that helps, thanks again!

N79

azure2444 wrote: »

Thanks very much for the responses.

22nd of the month is the date the rental started, for 6 months, then after that we pay on 22nd of every month monthly. The end of the fixed period was 21st of the month 6 months after the start.

Why does the government leaflet (perhaps someone else could post the link for me?) state very clearly otherwise? It says if the tenancy agreement is silent on the issue it is likely to be regarded that I have no obligation to give notice.

It was written by a moron? Seriously, since I have no idea what this leaflet is I have no idea why it says what it says. Perhaps it is for a different type of tenancy (such as a commercial tenancy which would operate more like the description you quote).

azure2444 wrote: »

Here are my specific dates. Start 22 sept 2009. End 21 mar 2010. I'd like to leave 4 jan 2012. Hope that helps, thanks again!

So notice servied tomorrow would allow you to leave on the 21 Jan (not the 22nd Jan as your agents insist but note that this assumes you have posted the correct dates - from your dates you pay your rent a day late each month). Notice served after the 22 December would allow you to leave on the 21 Feb etc.

There is no way you can end the tenancy on the 04 Jan without your LL's permission.

mumto2loves

i have no idea but i think this is a link to the leaflet


http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/pdf/138304.pdf

azure2444

N79 wrote: »

It was written by a moron? Seriously, since I have no idea what this leaflet is I have no idea why it says what it says. Perhaps it is for a different type of tenancy (such as a commercial tenancy which would operate more like the description you quote).

Thanks. I can't post the link but here is the address

http:// www. communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/pdf/138304.pdf

It definitely refers to a periodic tenancy and it is really strange an official publication could get something so wrong. Maybe I have misread something, I don't know.

So taking this out a little broader, if the notice isn't referred to in the rental agreement, how is the renter supposed to know all this? No one is going to start researching government acts. This seems very unfair to me, and I wonder if ultimately it is enforceable by successfully withholding deposit.

DVardysShadow

azure2444 wrote: »

Thanks. I can't post the link but here is the address

http:// www. communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/pdf/138304.pdf

It definitely refers to a periodic tenancy and it is really strange an official publication could get something so wrong. Maybe I have misread something, I don't know.

Something seriously wrong with that document. Very last page "Welsh Assembley [sic]". I think it has got out onto the internet without being checked.

azure2444

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Something seriously wrong with that document. Very last page "Welsh Assembley [sic]". I think it has got out onto the internet without being checked.

I trusted it! Looks like I'll have to either pay the 2 and a half weeks or renegotiate my start date of my new tenancy. I do think however that the tenancy agreement should mention the notice - it is kind of an important piece of information!

Yorkie1

azure2444 wrote: »

I trusted it! Looks like I'll have to either pay the 2 and a half weeks or renegotiate my start date of my new tenancy. I do think however that the tenancy agreement should mention the notice - it is kind of an important piece of information!

Stuff that is covered by statute is generally not included in tenancy agreements because it is not possible for a tenancy to override statute law, and also because people are presumed to know the law

N79

azure2444 wrote: »

Thanks. I can't post the link but here is the address

http:// www. communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/pdf/138304.pdf

It definitely refers to a periodic tenancy and it is really strange an official publication could get something so wrong. Maybe I have misread something, I don't know.

So taking this out a little broader, if the notice isn't referred to in the rental agreement, how is the renter supposed to know all this? No one is going to start researching government acts.

Ok - I've had a quick look and the document is indeed rubbish. It seems to ignore Cadwaller and Cadwaller vs Laine (a Court of Appeal case and thus binding on lower courts).

Paragraph 11 of Mr Justice Steel's judgement could not be clearer. It says

"So, as those words make clear, for a tenant to terminate a periodic tenancy notice is required. As to the length of the notice required, the principle which generally applies, and which would be applicable in this case, is that the notice should be equal to at least a period of the tenancy and expiring at the end of the period of the tenancy (see Hill & Redman's Law of Landlord & Tenant, Vol 1 A 8127). "

where "those words" refers to the judgement of Lord Justice Nicholls in Javad v Mohammed Aqil in which he said

"A periodic tenancy is one which continues from period to period until determined by proper notice."

EDIT: And the "applicable in this case" refers to an statutory periodic tenancy arrising after an AST - so a match to the OP's case.

So it is clear. A periodic tenancy requires notice, of not less than one period, by order of the courts!