Garage took 4 days to diagnose problem...bill?

GotToChange

I am expecting my car back to me today. It was left with them on Wednesday to find out the cause of a "funny noise" - my description - from the engine - which has been recently serviced, CAM belt changed and steering rack fitted (three different occasions) at the same place.

They did not seem able to establish the cause of the noise - fitting and trying several different parts (one of which was, apparently, the water pump). At close of business yesterday, I called for an update and was told that they had established that it was actually the water pump but plus another bearing of some type (previously quoted me £228.00 all in for w/p).

I am now getting the vibe (i.e....."had someone on it full time for three days....") that I am going to get a "big" (yes, it's relative) bill - as he couldn't tell me last night but told me to not let my evening be ruined and that he would call me today and advise cost so that I didn't keel over when I went to pick up. Sounds ominous.

So, being dumb in these matters, should I fully expect that I get a bill for all the man hours spent taking off old, trying new, taking off new and putting back original part?? Or should I only be billed for the water pump and bearing replacement - obv. including labour (and of course, I have no idea how long such a job would take but have the previous "quote" to go on....). I really don't want to cause a fuss if it is right that I am charged for these things and all the time spent but can't help feeling a bit ripped off.

Can anyone who is more knowledgable than me give me any kind of advice on this esp. how to deal with situation if I am billed "unfairly"....?

scheming_gypsy

If you took your car in for them to investigate and source the noise, then to replace the offending item then you could well be liable for the full labour charge.

GotToChange

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

If you took your car in for them to investigate and source the noise, then to replace the offending item then you could well be liable for the full labour charge.

Oh hello.

Clarify please.... you think I should pay for the xxxxx days (@£? per hour) to diagnose.....?

Interestingly, I have just spoken to dedicated VW (+ Audi etc etc) service (at dealership) who tell me that they charge a standard diagnostic fee (£60)* and then the repair. I didn't get a price from them for "just" water pump though, as they recommend (sounds like no other option) that the timing belt/tensioner be replaced as part of the same job - am not sure if this is because the belt may have been "contaminated by w/p fail" or "simply" because access to w/p is difficult/impossible without removing timing belt anyway.
So confusing.
Interestingly also was the fact that the quote was £399, which does not sound an awful lot for timing belt change and w/pump (see previous quote) - although yes of course, I know that such parts don't actually cost so much. Most of cost is labour which is higher due to having to take front bumper off.
Ugh.


*I think I am going to end up wishing I had gone there in first place.

scheming_gypsy

it is possible as a mechanic has had to spend that amount of time diagnosing the issue; although any decent garage would have kept in touch with you to let you know if it was going to be expensive.

What you possibly don't know yet, is how much of the four days was actually spent working on your car. It could be 8 hours a day or two hours over the four days. It could have just been a loose clip and they'll just charge you a tenner and he was just playing with you about getting some sleep etc.

but, as far as i'm aware... if they have spent 10 hours diagnosing a fault, they could charge 10 hours labour for it.

GotToChange

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

it is possible as a mechanic has had to spend that amount of time diagnosing the issue; although any decent garage would have kept in touch with you to let you know if it was going to be expensive.

What you possibly don't know yet, is how much of the four days was actually spent working on your car. It could be 8 hours a day or two hours over the four days. It could have just been a loose clip and they'll just charge you a tenner and he was just playing with you about getting some sleep etc.

but, as far as i'm aware... if they have spent 10 hours diagnosing a fault, they could charge 10 hours labour for it.

And I guess I would never know. Ah, that funny thing; trust....
If more than two hours*, then their diagnostics are going to cost more than the VW dealership's.

*Care to take a bet...?

JQ.

GotToChange wrote: »

And I guess I would never know. Ah, that funny thing; trust....
If more than two hours*, then their diagnostics are going to cost more than the VW dealership's.

*Care to take a bet...?

All VW will do for a diagnostics check is plug a computer into the car. If the car can't tell them what's wrong then would have to do exactly what your existing mechanic has done, except at a rate of many many many more £'s per hour.

s_b

This diagnostics you talk about will be a plug in on the eobd and a half hour labour included it would not find a noisy water pump
i think you are being unfair on the garage you took the car to unless of course they didnt offer you an all in price of having the water pump changed when you had the belt done
i have a picture from a car in last week on a vw golf where the plastic idler wheel came off its bearing and surprisingly the car still ran even thought its jittering around in front of the belt waiting to smash the engine to bits
one lucky owner that day

GotToChange

s-b ^
Sorry - that is just an engine to me (I am thick about these things....), although I can see there is something wrong with it.
I have had two timing belts go - one on an XR2 that I out and out neglected, so I guess I deserved it:the other on a new to me Shogun which had - appaaaarently - had (both) belt(s) changed - for me - prior to my purchase. £600 for XR2 engine, £1000 for Shogun engine rebuild.
I learnt at least to get timing belts changed as per service schedule, if nothing else.

Am I being unfair to them (although I take on board the statement re. engine diagnostics; as I said, what do I know)? I am just sceptical at this point - not having had a call yet.... but, they did NOT at any point suggest water pump replacement when the timing belt was done.

(Just looked out old - 14/7 - bill; tensioner, timing belt, aux belt, labour, so it's not as though I had it done and didn't remember, but I do remember they didn't suggest it. I was also having a wheel bearing and rocker cover gasket [again, interestingly, these cost about £15 to buy...] done, so bill was already over £500, maybe they thought I couldn't afford it - but it was certainly never advised.)
Sulks.

GotToChange

s-b
Another question, having read your post more thoroughly -
Do Passats have an idler wheel?
What is it attached to? (Timing belt? Auxiliary belt? If that's what I am seeing in your pics...)
Could IT have been the cause of the noise in my car? (Given that they never could find out what it was/is.)
Please 'scuse seeming stupidity.

rodenal

All cars with cambelts have idlers/tensioners - these should be replaced when the belt is done. It is advised that the waterpump be replaced at the same time.

It is not hard to locate a noisy waterpump/tensioner and as such if they stripped once to replace waterpump then once again to replace a tensioner without asking / advising what parts you should replace I would be inclined to say I wouldn't be paying for the second strip and rebuild.

*meant to add what you're looking at in the pictures is the cambelt area of the car - the broken plastic is an idler that has totally failed, the waterpump is located here too - you need to strip everything you can see in terms of belts and runners to work on the waterpump on most vags as it is belt driven. The issue you can see above would likely end up in serious damage (i.e as well to buy a new engine) 9 times out of 10, as sb has said that's a very lucky owner

scheming_gypsy

funny noises could be anything. I had a rattle coming from the back of my car a few years ago, it went on the ramps and rattled at low speed but not at high speed... nothing seemed loose and nothing looked out of place so the mechanic took the wheel off to have a better look. He rolled it across the garage floor and we all looked at it as the rattle went with it. Turned out there was something in the wheel that was banging about when it span, when you were going fast it was going too fast to hit the alloy.

and i don't think you're being unfair by being a bit cautious and asking advice on a 'what if'