Can estate agents make us pay call out charge

HoneyAndLemon

Hi all

We moved into our flat on 1st april, and noticed that in the main bedroom the window always had condensation on it.

A few months later I noticed there was also some mould around the windowsill. I always tried to open the windows and doors as much as possible to ventilate the place, and cleaned the window down as often as I could too.

The estate agents did an inspection during the summer, and I pointed it out to them and said I was worried it could lead to damp etc, and they said they'd get someone out to have a look. Never did.

Then last week we noticed a damp sort of smell, and I had a look and there was even more mould, so I called them on the Monday (the 21st).

Yesterday morning (the 28th) a guy came round. He was here 5 minutes before he noticed the vents at the top of the windows were closed. We hadn't even noticed them as they're the same colour as the window frames. Came home last night and it had all cleared up. Took 5 minutes, job done, happy days.

Until today when the estate agents sent me 2 emails. The first said their engineer had come back stating there was 'damp due to negligence by tenants' and a big list of what we should do to prevent it. It's not damp, it could have gone that way but its fine now.

Second email said the estate agents would be forwarding the invoice from the egineer to us, and that we would have to pay it.

My partner phoned them and explained that it was a 5 minute job, we had mentioned it before, we look after the place brilliantly and it was a state with the last tenant, we pay £650 a month in rent already, and that its hardly 'negligence'. They're saying its due to our mistake, and that we failed to properly ventilate the place, and that we'll have to pay the call out charge (probably about £150).

I'm at my wits end. I don't even want to live there anymore. We had trouble with the neighbours above us, as they constantly make noise, have 4 kids in a 2 bed apartment, always have parties etc, and the estate agents were no help again and we just put up with it. And now this.

Do we have to pay this? If we don't will they evict us? Seems really unfair (sorry for the really long post )

G_M

Could go either way.

'damp due to negligence by tenants' is certainly a valid reason for charging the tenant for an unecessary contractor visit. Would be the same if tenant demanded an electrician visit because a light wasn't working and it transpired the bulb needed replacing.

On the other hand, you could argue you'd never been told about the vents, and you had previously alerted them to the problem, including at an inspection when they could have immediately pointed out the vents. Hence their fault.

HoneyAndLemon

This is whats annoying me. They have agreed with us today that it's NOT damp. It could have gone that way if I hadn't got it sorted. It was just condensation. And it was just in that room (the vents in the other rooms were still open when he checked, so they weren't a problem).

Surely if it was damp, it would have required more than a 5 minute job, and more than just opening a vent?

We don't just ask them out for anything. I just paid £40 replacing all the bulbs in the place because 14 of them went out (I hate spotlights!). We take really good care of the place, and Im a bit of a clean freak so its always clean and tidy.

I would understand if it was our fault. But it was just a bit of condensation, easily fixed by opening some vents!

olly300

Tell them in writing why you aren't going to pay it - the fact that they should have told you that there were concealed trickle vents in the frames the first time you complained on xxxx.

However be prepared to fight for your deposit when you move out.

G_M

HoneyAndLemon wrote: »

I would understand if it was our fault. But it was just a bit of condensation, easily fixed by opening some vents!

That's kind of what they are saying!

They have to pay £50 to a contractor, when there was no need for a contractor. If there really had been a damp issue caused by a structural problem, obviously the cost would fall on the landlord. But there wasn't.

If you'd acted in a 'tenant-like manner' and opened the vents, there would have been no cost to anyone. But you didn't hence it was your fault.

(I'm playing devil's advocate here you understand)

olly300

G_M wrote: »

If you'd acted in a 'tenant-like manner' and opened the vents, there would have been no cost to anyone. But you didn't hence it was your fault.

(I'm playing devil's advocate here you understand)

And the OP arguement is that the trickle vents are concealed so they didn't know they were there. If the landlord or EA had informed them that the windows had trickle vents the first time they complained, they would have opened them.

Knowing landlords and having dealt with some of their tenants for them, you cannot presume people know basic things about properties.

G_M

olly300 wrote: »

And the OP arguement is that the trickle vents are concealed so they didn't know they were there. If the landlord or EA had informed them that the windows had trickle vents the first time they complained, they would have opened them.

Knowing landlords and having dealt with some of their tenants for them, you cannot presume people know basic things about properties.

which is exactly what I said in my first post (No. 2) and why I mentioned playing devil's advocate in my last one!

Each side has a potentially valid argument - it can be resolved by negotiation/agreement.... or a judge.

HoneyAndLemon

G_M i know what u mean dont worry

My point is that we acted in a 'tenant like manner' by raising an issue with the property we didnt know how to resolve. If its such a simple thing, why didnt the girl who was out doing the inspection when i first pointed it out think to mention vents? She clearly knew nothing about them either. This is our first time living on our own, as olly300 said people dont always know these things.

Im annoyed because theyre saying the reason that we have to pay is because our negligence caused damp, but we werent negligent, and there isnt any damp. So their argument for making us pay it doesnt really stand

Werdnal

As you feel it is a "6 of one and half dozen of the other" scenario, why don't you offer to pay the agent/LL £75?

I know you feel there is a principal here, but the agent/LL with see it from the other side, and the debate could go on and on.

TBH, I do not really understand how you could have lived there since April and not actually seen the trickle vents. I know they are the same colour as the frame (we have them too), but most modern DG windows have them, and if I was a LL having to foot bill for this wasted call out, I wouldn't be too happy having to pay half, never mind all of it!


Also, I note your last para about the neighbours noisy parties. There is little agents can do as this type of thing is beyond their control. If you have noise issues, you can report them through the correct channels, but agents are powerless to do anything.

HoneyAndLemon

Werdnal wrote: »

As you feel it is a "6 of one and half dozen of the other" scenario, why don't you offer to pay the agent/LL £75?

I know you feel there is a principal here, but the agent/LL with see it from the other side, and the debate could go on and on.

TBH, I do not really understand how you could have lived there since April and not actually seen the trickle vents. I know they are the same colour as the frame (we have them too), but most modern DG windows have them, and if I was a LL having to foot bill for this wasted call out, I wouldn't be too happy having to pay half, never mind all of it!


Also, I note your last para about the neighbours noisy parties. There is little agents can do as this type of thing is beyond their control. If you have noise issues, you can report them through the correct channels, but agents are powerless to do anything.

Well I dont really spend much time looking at the windows to be honest. The windows are really tall and the vents are kinda above the frame so they arent that visible. My point is, at no point during the 2 times I raised this over the phone and by email, and when the girl was out doing the last inspection and I showed her it, did they even mention the vents. They even said themselves they didn't know there were vents until the engineer told them thats what the issue had been, so we could be forgiven for not knowing. Its not exactly our fault they had to send someone out instead of offering any advice of their own.

Also, the vents were obviously closed when we moved in so who closed them, and why weren't they re opened when the last guy left?

I think the landlord should pay it. Its his flat. If we hadn't have kept raising the issue and not let it drop because we didnt know how to fix it, it could very well have led to something more serious, like damp. Our behaviour has been the opposite of negligent. If at any point we'd been told we would be liable for the charge I would have tried to get a relative out or something. But the estate agents always made it out if we had any problems, thats what they are there for.

Googlies_2

I'm not sure who's liability it is but if you were held liable for a call out fee...

As a fee wasn't quoted, they don't have a unilateral right to decide what the fee is. You have as much right to offer £x as they have to request £x. If you cant reach an agreement and it gets legal a court would decide what's reasonable.

(I would guess no where near £150)