Public Sector Strike(s)

julieq

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn wrote: »

You're coming across very bitter and jealous... I'm glad your day has been disrupted.

Hang on, you're quoting what you think Hutton said, and I'm quoting what he actually said. How does that make be bitter and jealous?

You have a great deal on the table. If you're too stupid to see that and decide to lose a day's pay to pick a fight you won't win, then that's hardly my problem. But please, stop this wittering about races to the bottom, because that is not what's on offer here. You are striking because you don't accept Hutton's conclusions, and then quoting him to support you. That is bananas.

Ultimately this is about fairness. Hutton was very careful to balance all aspects of this, and in fact the average salary element was carefuly chosen to shift benefits down from the high earners to the lower paid. But specifically it is about the reality of the situation that it is unfair to ask the taxpayer to fund better pensions than most of us get when the recipients are not being asked to dig deeper themselves. That is all you are being asked to do.

elantan

that reminds me of a poem i read once ... great poem but cant bloody find it ... done in ww2 (i think ) talking to the people about how the nazis affected just a few to begin with (eventually more people) and no body stopped them till they came chapping at their door, they looked around and there was nobody to help them they had already been taken

fair point Graham

julieq

ahah, Godwin's law.

elantan

i dont think so ... it was a poem ... might be though... i'm sure i saw it at auschwitz when i was there ... but had read it earleir than that

FTBFun

No it is definitely Godwin's law. Any mention of the Nazis makes an internet debate meaningless.

Somehow I don't think annexing Poland is going to do much about funding public sector pensions.

paulmapp8306

andybenw wrote: »

So you have a choice?? It was my understanding that you are in the forces just about to leave.

The outcome of this strike might not affect your already accrued pension, but it will certainly affect the pension of young soldiers and sailors who do not have the option to strike.

This is why the strikers need to be supported by forces personnel.

No new pension schemes have not been announced for forces yet. a new one will come in around 2015, but its not the same as what is on offer elsewhere.

As per the last pension change for forces in 2005, those already in a scheme will be given the option to continue or to switch tot he new scheme. New forces personnel will join the new scheme - and it will be in black and white for them to accept when they join. If they dont like it - dont join.

julieq

And sorry, was facetious. The piece you quote is quite famous anyway:

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

It's about collective responsibility for fighting against tyranny. But this isn't tyranny. It's about replacing a stupendous pension deal with a fantastic pension deal.

elantan

no it wasnt to make the debate pointless ... it was a poem that highlighted how people didnt bother caring about others until things happened to them ... no intention of stopping the debate at all i can assure you ...

elantan

Graham_Devon wrote: »

.

So long as its not US, and the buck is passed, it's fine and we all want reform. As long as, of course, that reform doesn;'t effect us today, tommorow, and doesn't effect any wealth we have built up in the past.

.

this was the bit of grahams post i was referring to ... and i agree with him ... the thing is it will affect everyone at some point

elantan

julieq wrote: »

And sorry, was facetious. The piece you quote is quite famous anyway:

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

It's about collective responsibility for fighting against tyranny. But this isn't tyranny. It's about replacing a stupendous pension deal with a fantastic pension deal.

thats it ... have been looking for that for years ... what is it called ? and yes i know that was tyranny and this isnt ... but parallells (sp) can be drawn from it ...