Capping benefits at 4 kids?

Lotus-eater

claire16c wrote: »

How on earth would someone have 8 children through no fault of their own?

Strict Catholics?

Lotus-eater

clearingout wrote: »

so how would that have worked for me? I had 2 children and was pregnant when my ex husband walked out, taking everything we had financially and I had at that point only one day's work a week. No choice but to claim benefits and they're still chasing him for maintenance 3 years later (no end in sight to that....). Should I have been capped at 2, then? Should I have been forced to have an abortion 'cos I'm a benefit scrounging '!!!!wit'

Well in some peoples views on here, yes. Do you not agree for the state of the nation?

Person_one

claire16c wrote: »

How on earth would someone have 8 children through no fault of their own?

I think the poster meant it wasn't their fault that they could no longer afford 8.

However...

A woman with an abusive partner who doesn't let her use contraception?

A woman from a religion or culture that forbids contraception and preaches 'fruitfulness'?

Someone really really unlucky?

cavework

Person_one wrote: »

It wasn't an option, it was a 37.5 hour job.

Low status? Minimum wage ? For a care worker?

claire16c

Lotus-eater wrote: »

Strict Catholics?

You can choose your religion.

clearingout

victor2 wrote: »

Go and see how "third world" countries manage without a welfare system.
Totally different outlook on life. It doesn't stop them reproducing, they just have a completely different set of values. Children are expected to support their parents as they age. Three or four generations live under the same roof. If necessary, the younger ones are sent out to beg to survive.
We introduced our welfare system to tackle poverty. It gets abused and has contributed to eroding our family values, but which is better? I certainly don't know.

Oh dear...

poor people in third world countries have many, many pregnancies but not necessarily many children that live beyond the age of 5. Off the top of my head, in sub-Saharan Africa, a woman needs to have 8 pregnancies before she can be sure she will have a child that will survive her. Poor people have many pregnancies for a whole host of reasons including cultural, financial, educational but mainly a lack of contraception and an understanding of how to use it (if you only went to school for 2 years, you can't read the instructions on a Pill packet, assuming you could afford it or it was regularly available for free at your 'local' clinic a 3 days walk away). Girl children are routinely aborted, or victims of infanticide in some South and South East Asian countries again for a variety of reasons such as a one-child policy in China in a culture where a girl child is essentially 'given' to her husband's family with no expectation that she support her parents into their old age. Look at the census stats in China - whole cohorts of females are simply missing. Poor families can't afford the dowry (despite it being made illegal in countries like India) that comes with having a girl-child within a culture that looks down on those girls who are unmarried. There is a wonderful - but harrowing - BBC2 film called something like 'Let Her Die' which explains this in great, depressing and deeply moving detail.

Girl children are also pretty far down the food chain when it comes to eating - and will therefore suffer more stunting and wasting than their male counterparts which means they are more likely to get sick and die (although it is an interesting fact that more boys are born than girls, thought to be because all things being equal, boys are more likely than girls to die within their first 5 years. Some suggest that it is nature's way of making up the numbers as a result of wars...not sure on that one, but certainly interesting). They (girls) are also pretty useless from a spending money on education point of view as you're just educating a wife for another family. You will find that there is a great emphasis in development work in getting girls into school and keeping them there since there is a direct correlation between the number of years a girl is schooled and the date of her first pregnancy (more schooling, more delayed the pregnancy). This is something that is certainly true in this country - with the added complication that girls are more likely to do well at GCSE than boys - but of course, the girls who do well are not the ones who are getting pregnant).

You will find in third world countries that children of the middle and upper classes are incredibly well educated with degrees coming out of their ears and with more or less the same size family expectations and general life expectation that the average person has in this country. It is also pretty disconcerting to go and eat at MacDonalds or Pizza Hut in the heart of Delhi but in the middle classes, Western aspirations and ideals reign.

As for managing without a welfare system. Well, yes, that is true. Not really much to be proud of,is it, having 4 year old children pick through garbage to earn a living? However, where there is poverty and need, there is also huge aspiration and enterprising spirit which is perhaps something the welfare state lacks. But there is also big business in international development and educated, professional people 'do' development, working for INGOS (Oxfam and the like), and NGOs because that is often all there is. Like working in the voluntary sector here on behalf of people with a particular disease, disability, affliction, social issue.....

Phew! I have a Masters dissertation on the dichotomy between high girl-child educational acheivement and high teenage pregnancy rates in Jamaica if anyone is interested?! It's fascinating stuff!

clearingout

Lotus-eater wrote: »

Well in some peoples views on here, yes. Do you not agree for the state of the nation?

I am an educated, homeowner who has managed her husband's business...the nation needs children like mine to secure it's future (although the first one, to be honest, isn't looking very promising!!!)

Person_one

cavework wrote: »

Low status? Minimum wage ? For a care worker?

What are you asking?

Person_one

claire16c wrote: »

You can choose your religion.

Tell that to someone brainwashed by Catholics.

My grandma's a 'lapsed' one but its really hard to shake those teachings.

moomoomama27

FBaby wrote: »

however, any child conceived whilst on benefits should accrue no extra benefits but for CB if that is to remain universal. If an 'accident' happen, they should make due with what they have just like a couple not entitled to any benefits would need to do.

I agree with that.