double dip recessionlol.. feels like one continuous one to me

COOLTRIKERCHICK

people are now saying we are going into a double dip recession.....lol..it just feels like one continuous one to me...

With more and more high street and well known businesses potentially going to the wall over the next year, how the heck do the government expect the small shops businesses to manage AND make new jobs for the private sector jobs being lost...

With the likes of thomas cook borrowing more millions of pounds to keep them afloat..

peacocks....arcadia group....hmv to name but a few all saying there are problems within the companies is this going to have the same effect as the toxic loans that started all the world problems
( well on a mini scale in the uk)

When are the government going to put their money where their loud mouths are and actually help small businesses, rather than be full of wind and spend the money on so called new government funded organisations which suposed to help you, but in reality all they do is drain the government of the funds and give little or no help at all..

I think our high streets are going to look very bleak in the future...

fguk

The more I read around the subject, the less I feel I know for sure, there is so much competing data out there it is impossible for me get a nice re-assuring grip on the situation.

I think that is a common feeling, which really doesnt add to business owners confidence at all.

I know two things for sure though

1) I wouldnt want to be in retail
2) I wouldnt want to be in government

As business owners we just have to manage as best we can and hopefully come out of this stronger than before. If people say only the best companies survive a recession, imagine what companies that survive two will be like.....

chalkie99

Governments of all colours throughout the years have tried to make the right noises about encouraging small business because they think it's the "PC" thing to do.

My thinking is that their idea of a small business is somewhat different to how the man in the street might define it.

When a minister talks about small business they are typically referring to established engineering companies with a few hundred employees and turnover in the millions. These are the small companies which are not known outside their local area or their own industry but which have the expertise to develop and grow and help our exports. Alternatively, there are the handful of start ups which are genuinely innovative and can develop new technologies which can also help our exports.

The publics idea of a start up, though, is the one (wo)man band opening a little shop selling coffee and cakes, hand made crafts, etc. etc.

There is simply no trade left which is not already oversubscribed and the thousands who are still chasing the dream that self employment is the answer to their problems are only competing against similar businesses which are already struggling. The result is that everyone gets dragged down, trade is split too many ways and everyone fails.

We need a new direction where UK PLC makes more of it's own goods, imports less and exports more. Little shops trying to squeeze money from people who don't have it in the first place is not the answer.

COOLTRIKERCHICK

I am a ltd company with 7 staff, and have a turnover which is on target to hit the 1 million

we in all honesty have had no start up grants, no growth grants etc as we were allways 'just' outside the criteria so to speak... we get no help with our rates etc..

We do export on a small scale, but are hoping to increase this in the new year.

I think they call my size business a 'micro' business.

It just makes me sick when i hear of all these large firms that get rates free or huge finanical incentives to move to trade in a certain area, and when the time is up for all the freebies move to another area or country.

Charliecherry

Good post chalkie,i started my one man band window cleaning business about 3 years ago started off nicely with 3 day week and slowly building....but in the last year a mixture of other new starters
who have come along and quoted reduced rates and customers who
are putting window cleaning further down their list of prioritys mean
i have pretty much stuck with the 3 day week,its tough out there..

Pennywise

Retail isn't the only trade. And not all retailers are showing falls in sales/profits. I'm not convinced that support of failing retailers or high streets is actually the answer. It sounds like govt "support" for the UK car, ships, rail, steel, mines, etc - i.e. privatisation when things turned bad which was only a sticking plaster - a very expensive one at that, which just delayed the inevitable. At the end of the day, if Joe Public doesn't want to shop on the High Street, then no amount of support will change it. My personal view is that the traditional town/city centre has had it's decade or two as retailer heaven and that it will now move onto something else - after all, centres used to be full of factories, warehouses, hospitals, banks, offices, civic amenities, etc - retail domination of the High Street has been a relatively recent thing. I think we'll go back to having more suburban and rural retail, either in retail parks, or a trend back towards smaller convenience and destination shops out of town.

As for small businesses, yes, Govt hasn't a clue. Some 95% of all businesses are "micro", i.e. employ less than 10 people. Yet Govt regard "small" as something completely different. Another statistic is that something like 90% of the workforce is employed by small businesses. It really makes you sit up and think when you look at these kind of statistics. Govt policy has for far too long concentrated on the "big" headline making firms - they're hungry for the photoshoot when Samsung announces a new plant in Sunderland, but completely miss the glaringly obvious statistic that even if only a fraction of all businesses (inc Micros) took on a single extra employee, it would wipe out unemployment at a stroke - subject to being in the right place, skill matching etc. - trouble is that the politicians would get no publicity and no photo-shoots - it's hardly newsworthy that Joe Smith the electrician has taken on an apprentice is it? But that's the answer!

Same with the new proposed London-Manchester rail link. It'll be brilliant for political photo-shoots etc., but the same money would create a lot more permanent jobs and help a lot more people if it was spread around in dozens of small scale improvements, such as re-opening branch lines and stations.

Mistral001

I agree with the sentiments expressed here by a few people regarding retail. I guses the Op is in that sector and thus this thread is bound to be skewed to discussing that sector. It make me sick sometimes when I hear on radio and TV quoting a rise or fall in the retail giants profits as if they were the most important firms in the country. They almost do it to the exclusion of all firms.

With regard to small businesses. That has also become a mantra in this country. "We must do more for small businesses". In fact for years and years the big firms have gotten bigger and the small ones have gotten smaller. It has happened in nearly every sector as far as I can see. Do we really need more small buisnesses?

We need more medium businesses as far as I can see. Many small to medium businesses operate very ineffciently because they have not got the capital to invest in the machines, software and equipment to do a proper job and be world-leaders. Often the small businesses appear to be efficient because of the long hours and very hard work done by their owners and the cutting down of overheads that they are able to do. These businesses need to be able to grow for the good of the country and then people might have money to spend in those shops.

Pennywise

We need initiatives so that micro businesses can grow into small businesses.

A "medium" business is one with between 50 and 250 employees. That's a hell of a jump for a new start up to grow into.

This is exactly where policy makers etc are coming unstuck. To the man in the street, the firm employing 45 people in a local factory is "medium", but to the Govt it's small.

The statistics show surprisingly few businesses employ between 5 and 100 people. It's very much a case of tiny (or micro) being 5 or less, then a big jump to the big employers employing hundreds or thousands. The policy makers need to listen to why that's the case and create an environment where micros can turn into smalls. Until that happens, there aren't any small companies to grow into mediums!

magenta22

I didn't think we had even got out of the recession!

Rather than using money for as an example the Olympics which yes may bring in more tourism - wouldn't that money have been better spent on creating jobs for people longer term?

They say that they will help to create jobs and then make more and more cuts. Then there is they will help 18-24 year old find work but what about the over 24's? Those who probably need work more as they will more likely have families to look after etc....

Mistral001

Pennywise wrote: »

We need initiatives so that micro businesses can grow into small businesses.

A "medium" business is one with between 50 and 250 employees. That's a hell of a jump for a new start up to grow into.

This is exactly where policy makers etc are coming unstuck. To the man in the street, the firm employing 45 people in a local factory is "medium", but to the Govt it's small.

The statistics show surprisingly few businesses employ between 5 and 100 people. It's very much a case of tiny (or micro) being 5 or less, then a big jump to the big employers employing hundreds or thousands. The policy makers need to listen to why that's the case and create an environment where micros can turn into smalls. Until that happens, there aren't any small companies to grow into mediums!

The terminolrgy you use is one determined by the EU it would appear (see link below).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_and_medium_enterprises

Disregarding what EU has decided to call them, there is certainly a shortage of those types of firms in the 5 to 100 range.

It is interesting to note that the sizes of the firms according to the link above seems to have been determined along the lines of the German businesses. Having worked in Germany and been impressed at the way they do business, I am not surprised that what we consider as medium firms they see as really quite small.

AliceJenkins

COOLTRIKERCHICK wrote: »

It just makes me sick when i hear of all these large firms that get rates free or huge finanical incentives to move to trade in a certain area, and when the time is up for all the freebies move to another area or country.

What makes me more sick is that this country just tries to punish business and people for working hard.

20% VAT, 50% income tax

It's just not working, scrap the benefit crowd and reduce tax!