WRAG ESA on work programme independent job seeking

eskimo26

Can i seek work independently of the my work programme providers or can i get into trouble? Lets presume i am looking for 15 hours for permitted work, but accidentally end up with 16 hours after a mix up but decide to take the job anyway and come off ESA.

I don't want to volunteer to job seek on the work programme they are to aggressive, they have no concept of the needs of disabled people, i've experienced this for myself.

Lets keep discussion in the DT forum pls.
Thankyou for all help.

rogerblack

eskimo26 wrote: »

Can i seek work independently of the my work programme providers or can i get into trouble? Lets presume i am looking for 15 hours for permitted work, but accidentally end up with 16 hours after a mix up but decide to take the job anyway and come off ESA.

You can end your claim for ESA at any time.

They cannot force you to seek work, but you can do this on your own, and end your claim.

However.
Work is not automatically permitted work, so be careful of this.

eskimo26

rogerblack wrote: »

You can end your claim for ESA at any time.

They cannot force you to seek work, but you can do this on your own, and end your claim.

However.
Work is not automatically permitted work, so be careful of this.

Thak god your still here. I've looked at permitted work and the restrictions. What i'm getting at is can i actively seek work of 16 hours or more without telling anyone then drop off the ESA when i get the job offer. I believe they ask you why your dropping out the benefits and also if they get wind of a job they will ask what date did you consider yourself fit for work, which may have some fraud implications.

If i was to be looking for permitted work and for whatever reason decided to apply for work of 16 hours or more and got the job can i get into trouble, presumably seeking work of 16 hours or more implies you now consider yourself fit for work which they will say i didn't declare?

Kind Regards for the help.

rogerblack

There is no bar at all in seeking work while on ESA.

The thing that is not generally understood is that to claim ESA, you do not have to be unfit for work, or to consider yourself unfit for work.

You have to pass the Limited Capability for Work, or the Limited Capability for Work Related Activity tests.
(neglecting for a moment those the DWP agree are terminally ill and others)

For example - Stephen Hawking - is capable - and indeed doing work.
However, he would pass the ESA test, and get ESA, even if his capability did not change, if he stopped work.

You can claim ESA if you resign from a job you can do with your disability easily, if you pass the above tests.
Similarly - you can work (though your claim will stop) without it affecting your claim, as long as you still pass the tests.

The opposite also applies to the less fortunate group of people that cannot realistically work in the current labour market, and do not pass the tests.

My usual examples are two people.
One a skilled professional design engineer in a field where they could walk into a job tomorrow, who has epileptic fits once every 5 days, with a good amount of warning.

The second is a deaf person who talks to themselves all the time, can barely run a washing machine, can communicate little more than simple phrases by writing or reading, and is in a manual wheelchair.

The second does not get ESA, the first does.

dapri71

eskimo26 wrote: »

I don't want to volunteer to job seek on the work programme they are to aggressive, they have no concept of the needs of disabled people, i've experienced this for myself.

Lets keep discussion in the DT forum pls.
Thankyou for all help.

Hi eskimo26, I would just like to comment on what you have put here about the work programme, when you said they are too aggressive are you on about the advisors who work on the programme & deal with JSA & ESA clients?

eskimo26

dapri71 wrote: »

Hi eskimo26, I would just like to comment on what you have put here about the work programme, when you said they are too aggressive are you on about the advisors who work on the programme & deal with JSA & ESA clients?

Yes its been atrocious, the Government has told them NOTHING. To be fair to my adviser he let drop that he has autism/aspergers (can't remember the exact details but it explains a few things), but we are in the room with his team mates and they don't have a clue either.

My 1st interview was an introduction and i told him i was on ESA he said he would check with a occupational therapist he use to work with and get back to me.

I talk to him on the phone and he says his unlikely to see me more then once a month because its unrealistic that i will be getting a job with my condition.

2nd interview was spent on the premise i was on JSA... about 3/4 of the way through after talking about seeking work the whole time he said 'that should get you off JSA'. I thought oh ok the penny dropped on why his talking abouting finding work, i told him i'm on ESA. Oh sorry ok your on ESA, then he CONTINUES talking about job seeking! Hang on sorry i was told the following by the job centre:
1/ No work placements.
2/ No work seeking.
3/ No forced medical treatment.

The poor guy was completely bewildered 'But why is it called the work programme?' He just kept saying this. 'I don't understand that can't be true or it wouldn't be called the work programme.' Then he asked me why i was there. I told him for work related activity in accordance with the DWPs compulsory rules on ESA claimants being added to the work programme. Anyway his boss is in the room with another client and i'm assured he'll explain it to my adviser when they have some privacy to discuss my case. I promise to e-mail him my cv and alongside that i e-mail him a copy of the rules and were they can be found on the DWP website.

3rd Interview he makes a big point that we have finally established i am on ESA, fantastic! Except he asks me if i've done any job seeking. Oh dear. Ok remember the 3 rules? I have to tell him again. Completely incomprehension,' but its called the work programme!' (he said this over the course of the interview in at least 3/4 variations.) His tit of a co worker who DOESN'T have autism decides to have a pop at it. She says ESA on the work programme is about finding work i can do with my disability, not necessary any work. Yep ok except the DWP has decided these rules for ESA on the work programme:
1/ No work placements.
2/ No work seeking.
3/ No forced medical treatment.

What's her response to this? Of course we would never force you to have medical treatment. OMFG no of course not that is not what i am saying i am just telling you the rules for ESA on the work programme! Its almost like i could see my point career away from her forehead and hit the ceiling.

So the adviser by this time calms down at her explanation. I start to get pretty agitated i run it through again, ' i have been told by the JC+ that the DWP has set the following rules for ESA on the work programme.....' So in the end his pretty deflated and annoyed he wants to know why i'm there in that case and what i want him to do. Deja vu anyone. I tell him again all i know is the DWP has sent me here on a compulsory basis to do work related activity. What is work related activity? OK this is the part were i start doing his job for him.

I explained my leymans impression of what this means, interview technique, cv workshops etc. Right we can do that with you but its all on the internet you can do that yourself just google it. He googles it and goes through a few pages and says it again, just google it. Goooooogle it. Great. So the interview is ending and i decide i'm obviously going to have to set my own targets here! I tell him 'maybe we could set a target?' I suggest a few pages a week and i'll e-mail the ones i read to him so he knows i'm doing it. 'That's a FANTASTIC idea!' says my adviser. Hmmm thanks glad you like it. So i walked out fairly bemused feeling like i'd walked into the movie groundhog day for the 3rd time.

Anyway their moving the poor guy to another office so i'll have a different adviser next time but if his colleague was anything to go by, i don't know they just haven't been told anything. Nothing. They have no idea how to deal with me. They probably have other ESA claimants job seeking and the poor sods are completely unaware that isn't suppose to be happening. Anyway its all a bit faulty towers so far that's why i don't want to put my health in their hands.
:eek:

gardenia101

Crikey eskimo26 - sounds like a nightmare!

I have been on ESAC in the WRAG for almost 18 months while having treatment & practical help to help me cope with sight loss.

My advisor has mentioned the Work Programme to me at my last visit earlier this month, but she couldn't give me any written info as she didn't have it in large print (this has been a recurring theme :mad:). I had already applied for a full time post & thought I'd be guaranteed an interview under the "2 ticks" scheme, so she said to see how I go with job hunting on my own before we try the WP. She didn't know that I'd been job hunting on my own & she hadn't found me any jobs that she thought I could apply for either.

At no time did I get the impression that my own job hunting was a problem to my claim. I think RogerBlack expalins it well - I am capable of working (now, not for a lot of my claim) BUT any job I could do is limited due to my disability.

I do get the feeling that she doesn't really know what to do with me though....

eskimo26

gardenia101 wrote: »

Crikey eskimo26 - sounds like a nightmare!

I have been on ESAC in the WRAG for almost 18 months while having treatment & practical help to help me cope with sight loss.

My advisor has mentioned the Work Programme to me at my last visit earlier this month, but she couldn't give me any written info as she didn't have it in large print (this has been a recurring theme :mad:). I had already applied for a full time post & thought I'd be guaranteed an interview under the "2 ticks" scheme, so she said to see how I go with job hunting on my own before we try the WP. She didn't know that I'd been job hunting on my own & she hadn't found me any jobs that she thought I could apply for either.

At no time did I get the impression that my own job hunting was a problem to my claim. I think RogerBlack expalins it well - I am capable of working (now, not for a lot of my claim) BUT any job I could do is limited due to my disability.

I do get the feeling that she doesn't really know what to do with me though....

That is such a relief does anyone know if they find out about the job if the provider can then go claim their money? One of my gripes is that i'm 'worth a lot' for the provider once employed and i hate the idea of them getting a windfall in public money.

Tbh the JC+ staff knew what they were doing, it was all very planned another reason why the move felt completely unnessary. But even then your right none of them really know what to do with us, in an ideal world we would be seeing occupational therapists to get us back to work. In your case because their is a period of adjustment involved i'd be surprised if an occupational therapist hasn't been involved...?

Best Wishes for moving a head you seem to be quite positive and motivated in your job hunting. :j

P.S. Very surprised about the large print as Government departments are usually leading in that kind of access, again this is something an occupational therapist can help with as part of their job is finding you aids. (in this case no doubt some form of transportable magnification). But that shouldn't be needed to access the leaflets your talking about!

eskimo26

I'd like to *BUMP* this from 8 months ago as i had a relapse in my condition and i'm only now back on my feet and once again in the same situation:

question 1:
I'm on ESA work programme, i apply for a job while on it and get interviewed and offered work so i leave ESA. Can i get into trouble for applying for work and accepting it while having 'limited capacity to work'.

I believe rogerblack answered this question but what is to stop them saying i have committed fraud because at some point i became well enough to work 16 hours and didn't file a change of circumstances.

question 2:
If my work programme providers find out about the job can then go claim their money? One of my gripes is that i'm 'worth a lot' for the provider once employed and i hate the idea of them getting a windfall in public money sine they have done literally nothing, i haven't seen them in months upon months strangely.

Two4Tuesday

Roger's excellent advice still stands. You can apply for work while on ESA while in the WRAG or even the Support Group without any issue of fraud, so long as the conditions you had have not changed. I found a job with an understanding employer despite having a lifelong condition that entitles me to be in the Support Group.

Secondly, if you find the job yourself there is no obligation to tell the work programme provider the details. They may lie to pressure you into giving them the details (they said to me it was necessary to close my file with them) and they may then even contact the employer for verification to claim their money.

I refused to let my provider (I was referred to a provider whilst appealing against being in the WRAG early in my claim) do this on the basis that I might lose my job if my employer was badgered by a third party.