PCN issued but I am not the owner of the car!

ias1969

Hi,

Am looking for some advice. I recently sold my car and on the same day the new owner drove the car through a pedestrian only area.

The council have sent the PCN to me as the DVLA obviously still showed me as the owner.

I appealed and sent them a copy of the bill of sale for the car.

They are saying that I am still liable as I can't prove what time I sold the car during the day.

Unfortunately I don't have any details for the new owner, but DVLA would.

Is it up to the council to contact the new owner? I imagine that DVLA wouldn't give me the new owners contact details (Data Protection Act) but I'm guessing that the council could.

Would appreciate any advice. Anyone been in a similar situation.

Thanks in advance

ias1969

brightonman123

ask for cctv to be checked- if in pedestrian area, cameras should show who was/ was not driving!

if council say they would only produce in court, make a note / copy of letters and calls etc, to show on the day (and claim your expenses back too!), while the judge tears them a new one!

Coupon-mad

ias1969 wrote: »

Hi,

Am looking for some advice. I recently sold my car and on the same day the new owner drove the car through a pedestrian only area.

The council have sent the PCN to me as the DVLA obviously still showed me as the owner.

I appealed and sent them a copy of the bill of sale for the car.

They are saying that I am still liable as I can't prove what time I sold the car during the day.

Unfortunately I don't have any details for the new owner, but DVLA would.

Is it up to the council to contact the new owner? I imagine that DVLA wouldn't give me the new owners contact details (Data Protection Act) but I'm guessing that the council could.

Would appreciate any advice. Anyone been in a similar situation.

Thanks in advance

ias1969

First of all there's no Court and Judge with a PCN.

And it doesn't matter who was driving because a real (Council) PCN is the Owner's responsibility and they think you are the owner.

So, you just have to appeal the PCN all the way to adjudication if need be - show as much evidence as you can, do you have anyone who can corroborate your statement? Anyone who was there when you handed the keys over? And did you send off the form to the DVLA saying who the new owner was?

And if it comes to it, adjudication is just a meeting with you and an adjudicator and the Council if they show up, and if you come across as a credible witness and have grounds for appeal you should win. Even if you didn't there are no costs involved.

What I am saying is that you have got this PCN (wrongly, as it happens) and so you must follow the appeals process.

Get over to pepipoo for help with your appeals, start a new topic and show pics of your documents & letters like on other threads:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

You should work on the assumption that the Council are going to try to bluff you into paying and will reject your representations, because they can. But if you are clear with your appeal then at adjudication you should win. Most people do.

Do not ignore this, do not deal with it by phone. Jump through the PCN appeal hoops and meet all deadlines.

peter_the_piper

Did you send in the tear off bit of the V5 to the DVLA, if so you have done all that's necessary. Its up to the council to prove it was you that did the driving not you to prove innocence. There is enough doubt for the adjudicator to find in your favour.

ias1969

Thanks for everyone responses.

I sent off the V5 bit to the DVLA as you would normally have to do. I have since received a letter from DVLA confirming that they no longer have me as the registered owner.

I have proof of posting for the initial appeal against the PCN.

Unfortunately, the only thing I have is the bill of sale from the car. and that only recorded the date I sold it and not the time at which I sold it. Honestly, who would make a note of the time?

I am hoping that with a bit of common sense the council will contact DVLA and confirm that the vehicle ownership was transferred on that date, and that would be the end of it. However, 'council' and 'common sense' don't strike me as two words that go together in these kinds of issues!

Thanks again. I will try speaking to them again on Monday. Good idea about the photos. I will ask them if they can determine who is driving.

tsol

ias1969 wrote: »

I sent off the V5 bit to the DVLA as you would normally have to do. I have since received a letter from DVLA confirming that they no longer have me as the registered owner.

and very importantly is the date of transfer shown on the V5, the same date as the alledged ticket was issued? I assume so but worth checking...otherwise your going to be on sticky wicket!

Coupon-mad

ias1969 wrote: »

Thanks again. I will try speaking to them again on Monday. Good idea about the photos. I will ask them if they can determine who is driving.[/QUOTE]



Why? I said above 'Do not ignore this, do not deal with it by phone. Jump through the PCN appeal hoops and meet all deadlines.'

You do realise that people in your position have ended up with bailiffs round because they made an appeal and a phone call only? I know you have already initially appealed but as I read your post, they rejected your appeal. So having proof of postage of something that's been rejected is useless to you. Sorry if that sounds harsh but you need to re-read my advice (please).

So the next thing you will get is the Notice to Owner, and you must respond to that with formal reps. Get over to pepipoo and get help to follow the PCN full appeals procedure. Do not get on the phone. Pointless.

Did you even read my post, I said that IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO WAS DRIVING. IT REALLY DOES NOT MATTER.

peter_the_piper

Council sent pcn, so that's probably a reg 10 one then that acts as an NTO as well so its likely the appeal she has made will be the only one she gets. CM is right get on over to pepipoo.com. Get copies of all sheets of paper recd, all sides (even the boring bits) remove identifying bits but leave dates and times. Host on tinypic and see their stickies for how to post pics.