MSE News: Avios vs its detractors - read the opposing views

theexplorer

richardw wrote: »

BA has the world's largest fleet of B744 Jumbo jet aircraft in the world with over 50 of them in service,
it also has over 50 B777 wide body aircraft.

So that's over 100 wide body aircraft flying all over the world http://thebasource.com/aircraft.html.

From 25 March 2012 it will be operating seven B774 aircraft every day to NYC JFK, the 8th flight will be a B777 http://airlineroute.net/2011/11/24/ba-lhrjfk-s12update2/.

Little availability is just a red herring.

At Dec 10th 2011, flights up to the end of Nov 2012 may be available, which is not indecent.

Perhaps you are not aware that not all seats are available for Airmiles customers, just a small proportion, of which many people are now scrambling to get

theexplorer

callum9999 wrote: »

While I would be annoyed (I find the taxes etc. on free flights incredibly annoying and so rarely actually spend my airmiles with various airlines on flights), it makes perfect sense to change the scheme. I think they should have given you a bit longer to book your next flight, but no other airline runs a scheme where they will pay your taxes for you, so I don't see why BA should be expected to.

Actually, the airmiles scheme was a differant type of scheme to other airlines scheme. It cost money to get Airmiles as opposed to just loyalty points

callum9999

thelawnet wrote: »

Eh what?

You never earned 'Airmiles' from flying. That's one of the reason why they have rebranded, because 'airmiles' is a generic term typically referring to earn-as-you-fly schemes.

Secondly the Tesco points have a definite cash value, you can sell them on ebay, redeem them for other things, use them in store. If you don't recognise their value well that's rather misguided because maybe Airmiles was not the best destination for your points.



Long-haul is now worse in Economy, but better in Club as the cost is now down from 3x miles to 2x miles, plus many of the mileages have been reduced. Generally for most people it's a negative, BUT the short-haul for me balances out as the long-haul redemptions (which were ALWAYS thin on the ground, no matter what anyone says) were never that good a deal compared with Zon e 1 short-haul redemptions in the first place.



£27 + miles for European/North African flights. You will find this MUCH cheaper than buying the flights with cash.

Not so for long-haul economy.

Well you do Avios - which is the scheme you are defending.

Tesco points do yes, I shouldn't really have included those as I only transferred them once during a special offer.

Much cheaper than buying BA flights with cash yes, not necessarily so with Ryanair etc. I won't fly BA short haul though as it seems a bit of a waste. This is just my view though, and not really a criticism of the general scheme - clearly many people fly full-service on short haul. Sorry, I missed your bit specifying club-class long-haul (not that I imagine many people actually use club).

richardw

theexplorer wrote: »

not all seats are available for Airmiles customers, just a small proportion, of which many people are now scrambling to get

How big is this 'small' proportion then?

theexplorer

thelawnet wrote: »

Whine whine whine.

Very constructive !

thelawnet wrote: »

I couldn't be happier about it personally.

Guess you are not an Airmiles collector as opposed to BA Exec points collector

thelawnet wrote: »

Long-haul was never a good deal cf. short-haul anyway. Long-haul Club flights are a better deal now.

Really, i thought being able to fly to the US with £250 worth of tesco vocuhers converted into Airmiles was a good deal, doubt you could get a cheaper flight than that.

thelawnet wrote: »

* more to pay in cash for European flights;

This is a weak argument. On balance, European flights are cheaper now than before, some hugely so, e.g., Moscow. Ok there is a cash payment in addition to miles, but given that the miles had a financial value, reducing the miles cost and adding a small £27 charge is fair.

There are some, but realtivley few flights that have benefited and ONLY if you can get to a regional airport, otherwise it can cost in excess of £100 more. One example Liverpool to Barcelona.

thelawnet wrote: »

Another weak argument. The BA regional airports are now a much better deal, while the non-BA ones it seems will charge fees, BUT the 500 mile surcharge is removed, AND many destinations are now a better deal. For instance Flybe Southampton-Bergerac at 2000 miles now 900 miles plus £64 in fees. Much better deal under the new scheme.

Interesting, so under the new scheme it will cost £45 in tesco vouchers coverted to Avios, plus £64 taxes and fees, making it £109, yet under tthe old scheme, it cost £100 in tesco vouchers, how does it being £9 more expensive make it a good deal? In actual fact, you can buy the flight from Fly be for only £85, much better deal and not trapped into the Avios scheme.

thelawnet wrote: »

* unclear availability;

Seems ok to me.

Maybe for the particular route YOU want

thelawnet wrote: »

* technical problems on the new site;

Standard. They have made massive changes to the system. They will get over it. So will you.

A professional organisiation would have tested it before rushing to get it launched in line with their still not finalised new scheme.

thelawnet wrote: »

* having to share info to join a public forum.

Boo-hoo, welcome to Facebook.

yet again, very constructive. Once again, professional companies, if offering channels to commuicate should do so with requiring you to share information

thelawnet wrote: »

Bottom line: the Avios scheme is DIFFERENT. Some things that were a good deal before are no longer a good deal. Some things are now a good deal but weren't before. Work with the scheme, there are plenty of great offers. Stop whining and try and focus on the positives because you are not going to get all the good things in the old scheme and the new one.

Sadley, too many negatives which outweigh by far the positives

theexplorer

callum9999 wrote: »

You're assuming every recognises they have a cash value - I personally don't. All my airmiles are from flying or from Tesco and I don't see them as cash in the same way as I would for actual money. Mainly because those points don't actually cost me anything whereas having to pay for taxes does.

And as the taxes on long haul flights are often the majority of the ticket price, how have they become better value? My gripe with them - particularly flights to America - is that I can generally find a flight for only a couple of pounds more than the cost of all the taxes and surcharges BA demand you pay on their reward flights - so I've never seen the point in actually using them.

If you have a £2.50 tesco voucher, then that does have a cash value as you can spend it as £2.50 in Tesco's.

Occy

Maybe I miss the point but this does seem a first world issue.

People who can afford to fly so many times that they can get "free" flights now have to pay a few quid extra, not exactly poverty is it.

Occy

theexplorer

Occy wrote: »

Maybe I miss the point but this does seem a first world issue.

People who can afford to fly so many times that they can get "free" flights now have to pay a few quid extra, not exactly poverty is it.

Occy

I think this is happening a lot with people getting the schemes mixed up. Airmiles is differant from frequent flyer schemes, Airmiles in the main were collected by people shopping in Tescos and converting thier £2.50 vouchers into Airmiles. It is generally people that can't normally afford to fly that have saved up airmiles for many years that have been saving on this scheme. Now they are hit not just by a few extra quid, but up to an extra £500 plus per person, So if you had a family of 4 saving up for that special trip, they could now be hit with a bill for as much as £2000 !

socks_uk

In the Andrew Swaffield article... http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/travel/2011/11/avios-why-we-had-to-ditch-airmiles

...he says that

And, from 26 January 2012 to 31 March 2012, you can exchange £2.50 of Tesco Clubcard vouchers for 1,000 Avios, compared to the usual rate of 600 Avios.

BUT on the Avios home page it says...

Bonus Avios in February

We're topping up your Avios all February 2012 – giving you hundreds of extra Avios free when you exchange*

Exchange your Clubcard vouchers for Avios during February 2012
For every £2.50 in Clubcard vouchers, get 400 bonus Avios
That's on top of the standard 600 Avios you usually collect
And you can do it as many times as you like.

I guess one or the other is wrong!

We were saving for our trip to Australia but with the change we'll be using our Avios miles for European flights as it is almost as expensive to pay the taxes as it is to book the flights with a normal travel agents!

jftbrian

thelawnet wrote: »

Whine whine whine.


* uncertainty about non-BA regional airports; [With Avios, there will only be six airports that customers can fly from (Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Newcastle, Manchester and London) in order to get the ridiculously named 'Reward Flight Saver'.]
Another weak argument. The BA regional airports are now a much better deal, while the non-BA ones it seems will charge fees, BUT the 500 mile surcharge is removed, AND many destinations are now a better deal. For instance Flybe Southampton-Bergerac at 2000 miles now 900 miles plus £64 in fees. Much better deal under the new scheme.

At present you are able to book these flights with Flybe, however I have been informed that the contract with Flybe ends on March 31st 2012. I have further evidence that Flybe at present have no plans to have a contract with Avios in the future !!

If this is found to be true then the reduction in Avios in your example is worthless and furthermore, this limits all members of Avios to use only 6 regional airports for the whole country.

This leads onto potential problems with availability, if Flybe are not renewing the contrcat with Avios, this will surely have an impact on the number of demand for seats on BA flights.

I am not wanting to look like I am out to get at Avios, however, I cannot understand why questions that i am asking are only being answered in the present tense or being avioded if i persist in getting clarification.
If there will be future contracts with airlines why are Avios being less than open about asking questions with regards to flight availability post 1st April 2012.