Switch off & unplug

tr3mor

SaverSarah wrote: »

We pay £44 per month to Good Energy (renewable energy) for four of us in a large four-bedroomed house and we're overpaid on our bills at the moment.

Smug, moi?

Yes, you are! That's what Good Energy hoped!

tr3mor

Cardew wrote: »

Non. C'est les propriétaires de l'énergie de bon qui sont suffisants.;)

Très très suffisant en effet.

gromituk

Altarf wrote: »

So even if you and all the other 'green' customers swapped back to normal tariffs, the electricity companies would still supply the same amount of renewable electricity as they do now. All you are doing is increasing their profits.

Surely, the corollary is that if more 'green' customers appeared, the electricity companies would be forced to generate more 'green' electricity? So perhaps 'green' customers aren't mugs after all - there should be more of them?

Altarf

gromituk wrote: »

Surely, the corollary is that if more 'green' customers appeared, the electricity companies would be forced to generate more 'green' electricity? So perhaps 'green' customers aren't mugs after all - there should be more of them?

Of course that's true and it's what the green campaigners dream of happening, but it isn't going to occur whilst the electricity companies can charge a premium price for 'green' electricity. People will say they are 'green' up to the point that they actually have to put their hand in their pocket.

The demand, above that forced by legislation, for 'green' electricity will only come when it is cheaper than normal electricity. So the greens would actually be better off if they campaigned for nobody to buy 'green' electricity until the the electricity companies stopped charging a premium price for it. If that happened the bandwagon for 'green' electricity would take off and demand for 'green' electricity would overtake the legal requirements. And if it didn't then we are no worse off (apart from if you are an electricity company shareholder that is) as we would still be using the same amount of renewable electricity.

And the chance of the electricity companies voluntarily reducing their profits and 'green' electricity taking off is...

SaverSarah_2

Altarf wrote: »

You do know that the electricity companies have the 'green' customers marked down as mugs they can rip off.

The electricity companies have a legal obligation to buy a certain proportion of renewable energy. It was envisaged that consumer demand for renewable electricity would mean that they would have to buy more than their legal obligation to meet demand. However due to the higher charges they make for their 'green' tariffs they cannot get rid of the renewable electricity they are legally obliged to buy, let alone need more, so the surplus renewable electricity is also supplied to customers on normal tariffs.

So even if you and all the other 'green' customers swapped back to normal tariffs, the electricity companies would still supply the same amount of renewable electricity as they do now. All you are doing is increasing their profits.

And if £44 is for electricity only that seems pretty high to me.

I actually agree with you in part. Plenty of the energy companies aren't doing enough and probably do take customers for mugs. If you're really interested in finding out more about who does this, the following article from this week's Independent is interesting, about Ofgem's findings on so-called green energy deals. As you can see though, Good Energy still came out best.

Altarf: fair play to you if your bill is less than £44 a month for the same sized property and same sized family as us, but we know plenty of average families who pay £60 to £80 a month just for electricity. We're paying less now for Good Energy than we were paying BG on a dual tariff. so yes, money-saving-wise I do feel pretty good about that.

:rolleyes:

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/lifestyle/article2338374.ece

* BRITISH GAS: No additional environmental benefits

* ECOTRICITY: Does more than most

* EDF ENERGY: Good practice but supply only meets legal minimum

* GOOD ENERGY: The best for "pure and simple" green energy

* NPOWER: Supply goes no further than legal obligations

* POWERGEN: Fund will help but only meetng law on supply

* SCOTTISH & SOUTHERN: No additional environmental benefits

* SCOTTISH POWER: Not going beyond legal obligations but green trust a serious effort

Altarf

Yes, Good Energy may be good, but it is charging 53% more than I pay EDF (which explains why your bill is about 50% higher than mine). That sort of price premium answers the question of why (as detailed in the Independent article) only 1% of households are on a 'green' tariff, despite 4.2% of electricity being generated by renewable means. Rather ironic that 75% of the 'green' electricity that is generated is supplied to people buying normal electricity, and only 25% to people on 'green' tariffs.

To expect consumer demand to generate the demand for 'green' electricity when it is being sold at such a premium is rather naive of the government and the 'green' organisations. How many people are there who will willing pay 50% more for their electricity? Are there really an additional 750,000 households who are prepared to do so and create this demand for 'green' electricity, so the demand will exceed the supply? Unless you think that the number of households willing to pay 50% more for their electricity will quadruple in the near future, being on a 'green' tariff makes no sense.

The only way that renewable electricity generation rates will increase is if the government steps in and either forces the electricity companies to cut the premium they charge for 'green' electricity or to set higher targets for the suppliers who will supply it with normal electricity as now.

SaverSarah_2

Altarf wrote: »

Unless you think that the number of households willing to pay 50% more for their electricity will quadruple in the near future, being on a 'green' tariff makes no sense.

Maybe so, but it's a personal choice and one I'm very happy with.

squashy

I try, but some things are a pain eg my stereo unsets all the preset channels everytime it's turned off at the plug, microwave clock resets and I use this daily as a kitchen timer....one thing that I did become concerned about was my clock radio, it actually emits a "hum" when left plugged in ie clock on but radio off, so gooness knows whatsort of energy that its using up. I since scrapped it and now use my mobile phone as a morning alarm!

tr3mor

SaverSarah wrote: »

Maybe so, but it's a personal choice and one I'm very happy with.

£183 a year is an expensive price just for feeling smug.

( providing Altarf's 53% is correct :eek: )

Altarf

tr3mor wrote: »

( providing Altarf's 53% is correct)

According to their price list Good Energy would charge me 14.05 pence per day standing charge (so £51.28 per annum) and 11.52 pence per kWh.

I currently pay EDF 12.52 pence per kWh for the first 225kWh per quarter and 7.54 pence per kWh afterwards (so an effective standing charge of £44.82 per annum).

So ignoring the small standing charge difference in EDF's favour, changing to Good Energy at 11.52p would result in 53% higher electricity bills than paying EDF at 7.54p.