Advice please..

Tammera

My sap of a mother has been with her partner for around 12 years and living/staying with her, he also has his own house he was paying minimal bills for as he didnt spend time there. He was in financial crisis when they got together and said he couldnt give her any money towards bills as he was in so much debt, and he cant help with her house bills when he has his own to pay etc and has been saying the same thing for the last 12 years.

During this time she claimed working families tax credit as a single person/earner, until her youngest was 19, she told me she told tax credit people her partner was staying/living with her but didnt contribute to bills and he had his own house he was paying for etc and she said they was fine with that, but she lies im not sure if she did.

She got single person council tax rate, he also payed council tax on his house.

Same for tax when she worked part time.

I said for many years hes conning you and hes probably sitting on an increasing little nest egg and once hes got enough he will be off etc and everytime they discussed it he told her i was trying to cause trouble between them and she believed him, he has also never allowed her to see his bank statements or anything concerning his finance, everything is sent to his house.

For about 6 months hes been spending nights and weekends away and telling her he has little work and needs to go away for business, and wont tell her what sort of business or where hes going etc, he has also starting being very verbally abusive to her (well he always has, but now to a whole new level). Over time hes been going off more, dressing up more, and being more vague, so she went through his wallet when he was asleep and found viagra (not being used with mum) there was a pack or 4 with 2 missing, after being away 2 nights, she checked it again and the 2 in there was also gone, she checked it again a few nights later and there was a new lot with some missing. so hes clearly having an affair, she hasnt mentioned it to him as yet, as he has been away all weekend and wont answer his phone.

He clearly has been using her and im sure he is fiddling the tax as he was explaining to me some of the tax breaks you can get, and in the situation he is in he can fiddle them (his house is about 70 miles away from my mums, and he works where my mum lives, since inland revenue must think hes staying at his house as his mail is sent there, he must be claiming traveling expenses, from home to work, he said you can get a tax break on petrol for pleasure so you must get it for commuting to and from work), although i cannot be sure he is, i told her to kick him out and tell inland revenue that hes been staying at her house the last 12 years, and let them see if he has been fiddling them.

Would my mother be liable for anything with the things i mentioned above that she was getting? if she tells inland revenue he has been staying at her house, they will look at her situation aswell im sure, will she get in trouble for anything? im sure if it came down to it she could prove he never gave her a penny.

Oldernotwiser

I wouldn't worry about what he's been up to, if you're mother's been claiming as a single person she'll be in enough trouble of her own.

BigAunty

Your mother will have signed agreements for council tax and tax credits to the effect that the information that she gave was true and that she realises she could be prosecuted for false information. These are means tested and take into account the income of any partner. If she has supressed this, it is her fault. Therefore, if she has given the impression that she has not been co-habiting, the entire risk of benefit fraud lies with her - she applied and received them. The fact that her (hidden and secret) partner has been personally stingy towards her has absolutely no bearing on her case whatsoever - personal financial arrangements are not legitimate reasons to falsely claim benefits.

It could be that her partner persuaded her that there is no evidence of his occupation at her address, if for example, he directed all his ID, bank accounts, business registration, etc, to his other address. This is perhaps indicated by the council tax he paid for the other address despite his lack of occupation.

She was not entitled to a single person council tax discount and his income may have ruled out any eligibility for WTC. This is her problem, not his.


You can report him to the HMRC tax evasion line if you think he is evading tax but to be honest, you have no real evidence of this (just his bragging), though it is not the case that a person can get a fuel tax break for personal journeys or from travelling from their home to their place of work (commuting), as far as I know.

There are plenty of legal ways to minimise tax, legitimate ways of offsetting expenses and this is different from evasion.

You can report him to the benefit fraud line if you think he's claimed to be single at his other address to get single persons council tax discount and the HMRC if you think he pretended he was single to increase tax credits. But then it leads them back to your mother who has lied to get allowances and benefits that she was not entitled to.

For the rest of the stuff, it's a relationship issue, not a benefits issue. Your mother is a grown woman.

Who was living in his unoccupied property, if at all?

McKneff

Tell her to just kick him out and move on.

Like ONW says, your mum could be in trouble benefits wise, she certainly wasnt allowed to claim the 25% CT discount, Im surprised they havent caught up with her before now.

How on earth youre keeping your mouth shut I dont know. If it was my mum he was doing all this to I'd be sticking up for her big time.
Yes, I know it would have nothing to do with me but I just wouldnt be able to stand back.

Mrssmith

I think your mum should get rid of him asap and then figure out whats she going to do re the 12yrs shes been claiming benefits she wasnt entitled too.

They will certainly catch up with her, I know from experience, im being chased now on a claim in 2007.

MRsS

Tammera

Well after reading this, i wont say my thoughts. i decided the phone working families and council tax and she was telling the truth, they both said its a grey area and there is no set rules as to what is considered co-habiting when they have their own house, their own seperate bills, and he isnt giving her any money. Working families said that although he spends most of his time at hers because he has his own place to reside when he isnt at hers reguardless of how little that is, and he isnt giving her money, then she isnt breaking the law, and they would reguard them as having seperate finances. Council tax was a little more vague but they said in reality if he pays council tax for his own house and most of his stuff is in his house etc then they wouldnt bother to look into it as fraud, but if she claimed anything like housing benefit, income support etc then it would be different (which she doesnt).

Mcneff i have tried so hard to get her to get rid of him for years, but its like that battered wife syndrome, she feels she cant do better. Even now shes making excuses to not getting rid of him.

Oldernotwiser

It sounds as if they deserve one another!

McKneff

Working familes dont know what they are talking about.

Phone the DWP up, they will tell you a differnent story altogether about co habiting. No question

Lets get this into context, she is committing benefit fraud, and lets face it, we (including you) as tax payers, and I'm a pensioner, still paying income tax, are the very people she is defrauding.

BigAunty

Tammera wrote: »

Well after reading this, i wont say my thoughts. i decided the phone working families and council tax and she was telling the truth, they both said its a grey area and there is no set rules as to what is considered co-habiting when they have their own house, their own seperate bills, and he isnt giving her any money. Working families said that although he spends most of his time at hers because he has his own place to reside when he isnt at hers reguardless of how little that is, and he isnt giving her money, then she isnt breaking the law, and they would reguard them as having seperate finances. .

Did she get any of this in writing? I can actually see why they fall within a grey area, kind of, since he can demonstrate he has a residence elsewhere despite it not truly being his primary residence. It would be hard to cry 'fraud' as there's no paper trail to prove his occupation.

Was his own place left unoccupied or was he trousering rent from a tenant there? Or having housing benefit paid there, for example?

Regarding his abusive nature and your mother's destroyed confidence, have a look at the Womens Aid website. Plenty of good advice there for the victim and their relatives. Domestic abuse isn't just about violence, it's also about being emotionally controlled, being financially exploited, etc.

Tammera

BigAunty wrote: »

Did she get any of this in writing? I can actually see why they fall within a grey area, kind of, since he can demonstrate he has a residence elsewhere despite it not truly being his primary residence. It would be hard to cry 'fraud' as there's no paper trail to prove his occupation.

Was his own place left unoccupied or was he trousering rent from a tenant there? Or having housing benefit paid there, for example?

Regarding his abusive nature and your mother's destroyed confidence, have a look at the Womens Aid website. Plenty of good advice there for the victim and their relatives. Domestic abuse isn't just about violence, it's also about being emotionally controlled, being financially exploited, etc.

No he isnt getting housing benefit for his house, he owns it, and he isnt letting it out apparently its not fit to be let out or sold, when his ex wife left him after 25 years, he smashed smashed up the house so it would be worthless and she would get nothing from the divorce.

Ive done all the DV thing ive tried everything over the last 12 years, my friend that works for a DV place has tried to talk to her, she wont listen.

DWP have the 3 night a week thing i know that, i assumed it was the same for all of them, thats why i thought she was telling porkies about telling them, but they both told me they dont have the same rules of cohabitation.

Sorry but i must say, it was merely a question on whether she was liable or not, i feel it was very harsh to make such judgments like they deserve one another, she told me for years she had told them the situation and she was telling the truth, 2 different agencies told me the same thing, she has been through hell the last few years for many reasons, and he has exploited her for it.

She has been unable to work for a few years now and she doesnt claim anything other than DLA, if she was a fraudster, she would be claiming income support or incapacity benefit.

Caz3121

Tammera wrote: »

DWP have the 3 night a week thing i know that,

There is no 3 night 'thing' that is a myth