dodgy car sale

rammster

Hi there
Purchased a BMW 3 series W reg Saloon from a dealer in Poole with 6 months warranty (Max claim 300£) / Indy dealer. for nearly 6000 pounds. The car started to flash trhe coolant light in 3 weeks of having it. took the car to garage , they kept car for 3 days and returned it saying faulty thermostat and that it has been changed. 3 days on the coolant light flickers again. Took it to the dealer, says top it up and see how it goes, bled the system and said could be an airlock doing it and see how it goes. 4 days on the coolant light comes on again, told the dealer, he did pressure check for any leaks and told me there weren't any , replaced the radiator cap , and said see how it goes, 3 days on I travelled to my brothers 250km up and down. Coming back the car overheats. I put the car on hard shoulder got the AA recovery guy who told me that it could be an air lock developing again and again due to a faulty head gasket pushing the coolant out . He refilled the system bled the air lock, and told me to send it in for detailed testing. I am done with this car now! 4-5 trips to the garage. Spoke to the mechanic yesterday told him that the following things are out of order:
1. RAC check done , but I still dont have any docs on it.
2.While selling it he told me there were 2 owners it turns out that there were 3
3. Defective car.

The car has been purchased less than 8 weeks ago, delivered in late november.

I have told him about sales of goods act , and he has said that he will repair the car. What are my legal rights from here

Spoke to Consumer Direct people and they took my details and the garage owners details and said that you should post a letter with recorded delivery and keep a copy to show that we mutually did try to resolve the conflict.

I am very unhappy now.

Any advice please??
2.

gyzmo

Let consumer direct deal with this - they should offer advice and refer to trading standards.

there certainly has been some misrepresentation, but you need to get the facts rights whenit comes to SoGA.

furrypolka

OK, bit by bit:

Point 1 -

Give them a date by which to send your documents. I doubt there's very much you can do on this point if they don't do so, however - your damages would be negligible (potentially a refund of the RAC inspection fee if you actually paid for it in any form).

Point 2 -

The Sale of Goods Act states that the car should be as described. If he has said that the car had 2 owners, this is a misdescription. In addition, it may be a misrepresentation under the Misrepresentation Act 1967 - although in order to come under this Act it has to have been something that induced you to enter into the contract (i.e. if you had found that it had 3 owners but would still have chosen to buy it, it would not have been a factor that induced you into the contract).

If all this is verbal, it will be hard to prove anyway.

Point 3 -

If the faults can be proven to be not normal wear and tear, you can argue that the car is not of satisfactory quality and therefore does not comply with the Sale of Goods Act.

If the faults are not considered normal wear and tear, you do have a reasonable period of time in which you can try and reject the car and claim a full refund - however this is generally a short timescale (see Bernstein v Pamson Motors 1987) so would have passed for you.

The trader is entitled to offer a satisfactory repair in the first instance (or a like-for-like replacement item, but that's not likely in used car cases). However if you have given them reasonable opportunity to put the fault right but this repair fails to correct the problem, you can then argue for rescission of the contract - which is basically a refund less an amount for any wear and tear you have enjoyed from the car, in your case this would be quite a small deduction to allow for the little use you have had.


Your main issue here is whether the faults would be considered normal for the age and mileage, or whether they are not what you would expect on such a car. I am not a mechanic so you would need to get a second opinion from someone who was - i.e. a BMW main dealer (Trading Standards can't do this). This is what your case rests on, in my opinion. Yes, the burden of proof is on the garage to prove that it's not faulty/normal wear and tear - but do allow for the fact that they will certainly try and do so and therefore you need to be certain that you do have a case to pursue.


If you're still unsure, do call Consumer Direct for advice. They are unlikely to get Trading Standards involved (unless you are lucky enough to live in an area where TS do assist in mediation, possibly not if you are nearish the garage!) as there is no easily proven criminal offence but CD should be able to confirm your civil position.

kuohu

The advice above is very good, but I would like to comment that the garage do seem to have tried hard to fix the fault, albeit unsuccessfully. I know from experience that trying to trace an actual fault is like chasing your tail sometimes. That's just cars for you. The garage won't want your car back 4 or 5 times any more than you do.

That said, I do agree that a £6k car should be in proper condition mechanically, and 4/5 visits to the garage really is OTT. I wish you all the best in getting this resolved.

nomoneytoday

2 previous owners + the owner at the time of sale = 3 previous owners..

furrypolka

I think "a reasonable person" would expect a car sold as having "two previous owners" to have had 2 previous owners before passing into the trader's hands, and I am certain a judge would agree.

rammster

sorry i am the fourth one. according to v5 doc

darwin-rover

1. RAC check done , but I still dont have any docs on it.
2.While selling it he told me there were 2 owners it turns out that there were 3

Both common dealer tricks . Tell you there is a Full Service History blah , blah , blah , but they cant find it at the minute . When you buy the car they tell you they will forward it on - read as , it doesnt exist .
They also tend to tell blatent lies about the cars history , what spec it is , tax , MoT etc.
My bother went to an indy dealer recently to look at a Mondeo . Advertised in Auto-Trader as 69000 miles , full MoT , full electrics pack , FSH . Turned out it had 71000 miles , 2 months MoT , only had electric front windows , and FSH was currently AWOL (surprise , surprise)

rammster

I visited this guy just to get the hpi check from him , which he printed off , but that too happened 4 weeks from having the car. When the car arrived it didnt have the service stamp as promised by the dealer (he promised a full service, hpi , rac 166 point check and MOT & tax for 6 months. ) , i told him to put the stamp there so he said he will post it to me later (he home delivered the car). The guy had also not reset my service counter so the computer still said 250 miles for the next oil service. I checked the dipstick and the oil level was topped up though. On enquiring at 2 weeks he said that hpi,rac check and booklet had already been posted to my address. But Lo and behold it wasnt. I actually had to personally collect it when i visited him at 4 weeks with my new found coolant light flickers. I live an hour away from poole and driving on these country roads of dorset is not great fun either (sparing the wonderful scenery around you). I can write a book about "HIS DODGINESS!"

Lessons learnt...
1.Never trust a STEALER
2.Get your own HPI / RAC Checks done , pay the extra 200 pounds but it will still be cheaper than the cost of your next breakdown and perhaps less dangerous as I found out.
3.Look on the regulating body of motor garages and see whether this garage is registered .
4. Go for something Japanese, save yourself this whole business
5. Wanna go German then go to a proper dealer not an indy.

furrypolka

darwin-rover wrote:

Both common dealer tricks . Tell you there is a Full Service History blah , blah , blah , but they cant find it at the minute . When you buy the car they tell you they will forward it on - read as , it doesnt exist .
They also tend to tell blatent lies about the cars history , what spec it is , tax , MoT etc.
My bother went to an indy dealer recently to look at a Mondeo . Advertised in Auto-Trader as 69000 miles , full MoT , full electrics pack , FSH . Turned out it had 71000 miles , 2 months MoT , only had electric front windows , and FSH was currently AWOL (surprise , surprise)

If there is hard evidence that the trader is making false statements, report it to Trading Standards as it's a breach of the Trade Descriptions Act (whether you buy the car or not, it's an offence to misdescribe an item offered for sale in the course of a business)

TS won't take on cases involving verbal misdescriptions in general, because the TD Act is criminal law and as such the standard of proof in court is "beyond reasonable doubt", therefore they need to have enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the trader has committed the offence. However, if there's an ad, get it reported!

darwin-rover

Like I said , COMMON dealer tricks . I've seen a few cars from different dealers advertised as say , 88000 miles , but when you go to look at the car the day after its been advertised , it suddenly has 92000 on it . Dealer says "Its a printing mistake" . Funny how they always seem to have printing mistakes in favour of the car .
If I went to TS for every dodgy car dealer , it would be my full-time hobby !!!