Part P certificate

stan5001

As part of getting a new kitchen, I had an electrician recommended to me who has put in a new kitchen ring. At the same time he installed a new consumer unit and did a Periodic Inspection Report.

When he came round to quote he said he was fully qualified and that we would get certificates. By this we presumed Part P. Whilst talking he agreed when I said I could have done it myself and got the council to certify it for me.

Two days later and £600 lighter he delivered the certificates, they are handwritten BS7671 ones and no mention of Part P.

After some querying he owned up and it transpires he's newly qualified and in the process of joining NAPIT. He's getting a friend to come round this week to sign it off.

In the meantime I've learned my lesson and have checked with NAPIT that his friend is indeed registered - but believe it's not permitted to sign off other's work.

The council would charge £250 - what would others do, accept the dodgy part P certificate or get the council to sign off and get the £250 off him?

I will always check a professional's credentials from now on!

Meepster

Well, for starters, BS 7671 is part of Part P, from "A guide to Part P"

In the Government’s view, the requirements will be met by adherence to the ‘Fundamental Principles’ for achieving safety given in BS 7671: 2001 Chapter 13 (IEE Wiring Regulations).

However, if he isn't registered as a "competant person" with one of the regulating bodies, then he cannot get his friend to sign off the work, this can only be done now by Building Control. They will only issue a Building Regulation completion certificate. All his friend could sign off would be a BS 7671 Periodic Inspection Report, which would only indicate that electrical safety tests had been carried out, not that the work complied fully with BS 7671.

http://www.globalstaruk.co.uk/media/pdf/MK%20Part%20P%20Guide.pdf

Please note: what I have said above changes if the "friend" is actually his employer or works as part of the same company, as there is only a requirement to have a "Qualified Supervisor" if more than one person is completing installs for the same company, who can then sign off the others work...

stan5001

Meepster wrote: »

Well, for starters, BS 7671 is part of Part P, from "A guide to Part P"
...

Yes, fair point; I'm not even worried about the wiring. I am worried about selling in 5-10 years time and not having the right paperwork.

And of course being slightly ripped off - he knew what he should have done...

I wish they'd set up a GasSafe for electricians. Too many qualifications and self-cert schemes.

ic

I'm in the same boat - had an electrician who clearly advertised himself as registered with Elecsa, never thought to double check it. He did the work, then failed to provide a receipt or certificate. Now doesn't respond to calls. Chasing up Elecsa, they don't care, and it was hard work to get them to confirm he'd been struck off their list six months earlier. They wouldn't say why.

zax47

Meeepster, sorry but you're wrong on several counts... (speaking as a qualified and certified electrician, that is)

Of the 6 Competent Person registration bodies for certifying "Part P" electricians, NAPIT are the ONLY ones who DO allow their members to sign off another electricians (note: not a DIYers!!) work - the other bodies do not, but this is down to them and not a requirement of "Part P"

BS7671:2008 (amended 2011) is NOT "part of Part P". Part P is a subsection of the Building Regulations regarding electrical installations and who is "competent" to do what degree of installation work and, to some degree, how it should be done. BS7671:2008 is guidance for best practice for electrical installations publisihed by the IET, it is not enshrined in statue law as the Building Regulations are. Complying with BS7671:2008 is ONE way of ensuring you meet the requirements of Part P but not the only way (albeit the easiest and most practical). BS7671 in it's various guises has been around for many, many more years than Part P has. It is the latest iteration of many editions of IEE (laterly IET) guidance for best practice as denoted by 1st - 17th editions over 60+ years.

"Technical Requirements

The technical requirements laid down by Part P are remarkably simple. They are:

P1 Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury.

It is worth noting however that they apply to all work, not just notifiable work, no matter who does it. So a DIYer adding a socket or a fused spur to a ring final circuit must work to the same technical standards as a registered electrician doing a complete rewire.

The biggest practical issue that arises is testing. To carry out testing of electrical circuits requires expertise and equipment, neither of which are likely to possessed by the average DIYer. So although Part P allows a DIYer to replace an entire circuit cable if it is damaged, without notification, it is arguable that he could not be sure that he had done it properly unless he carried out a series of tests on it, something he would probably be unable to do.


The IET Wiring Regulations, aka BS 7671

Surprisingly, perhaps, Part P does not alter the status of the Wiring Regulations. They are still non-statutory, and there is still no legal requirement to adhere to them in domestic installations. This is a source of great discomfort to many electricians, and some of them will jump through hoops to try and prove that they are mandatory, but the fact remains that they are not.

HOWEVER, adherence to them is a very good way of ensuring that you meet the technical requirements of Part P, and you would need a very good reason, and a very good understanding of what you were doing, to decide to not adhere to them."

stan5001 , If your electrican gets his NAPIT registered colleague to certify the job then that's fine. He'll notify NAPIT of the job and they'll send the compliance certificate to you or your LABC as appropriate.

stan5001

Update: his mate came round, spent 10 minutes checking things and 3 days later we had a NAPIT certificate to please the solicitor.

I know enough about wiring to know he did a good job; but part P is a bit of a mess...

keystone

stan5001 wrote: »

but part P is a bit of a mess...

and most trades will tell you that its a complete PITA and a waste of space in reality but in much more colourful language.

Cheers

zax47

stan5001 wrote: »

Update: his mate came round, spent 10 minutes checking things and 3 days later we had a NAPIT certificate to please the solicitor.

I know enough about wiring to know he did a good job; but part P is a bit of a mess...

Thanks for coming back to let us know Stan, glad it worked out for you. I'm with NAPIT myself, so I was pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue.

Leif

keystone wrote: »

and most trades will tell you that its a complete PITA and a waste of space in reality but in much more colourful language.

It can also be seen as a work creation scheme for electricians, since it makes most electrical work out of bounds for the DIYer. I can understand the reasoning behind it - who would want to buy a house that had been rewired by someone who was incompetent - but I am not convinced it stops DIY electrical work.