2 tickets, 1 clamp & towed in 9 hours!

kmdk412

Hi All,

Hopefully someone out there can give us some advice. Tonight we came back home and found that our car was missing from the spot we park it in. We have just moved into a new flat and have heard rumours about the extremely strict parking enforcement. Although we've just moved I've been placing my permit on my dashboard every night... but this time I forgot.

We have a designated parking space and I was within the lines. The parking enforcement people (CPS enforcement) gave me a ticket on Saturday night (20:30) and another on Sunday morning (06:30). And at somepoint they clamped me and then towed me, but remember that they only made two visits. I would have sorted it today had I seen it, but as we don't use our car at the weekends and can leave via a different entrance (one that doesn't pass the car park) we didn't see it until we came back. Thankfully I forgot the other door's key otherwise we still wouldn't have seen it.

What I'd like to know is: is 9 hours enough time to notify me (No effort to communicate to me was made), bearing in mind that it was overnight and all of it was in darkness; can they remove me as I was parked in my designated space (as I have always done); can they act out more than 1 type of enforcement at a time (they only visited twice but 4 enforcement's were acted out) and finally can the pound advise me to pay the £525 (in cash, only!) to release the car and then dispute it afterwards.

I know it's a long shot, but can anybody provide any advice?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers Chris

Coupon-mad

This will happen to you again and again until clamping is banned under the Freedom Act next year.

Personally I would not have moved anywhere that had 'strict parking enforcement' because that simply means there's a parasite PPC in the car park, skulking around and extorting money from residents and legit visitors. You are stuck with this now for months.

But - you've asked Qs about what they 'can' do. Sadly they can do anything they like because the Police will not take action, even though you are clearly being fleeced here. Lack of Police action on rogue clampers is one of the reasons why the Govt are banning clamping.

Happily, there's another 'but'! But you can sue them and the managing agents for the return of some or all of the money you ARE almost certainly going to have to fork out to get your car released. Do not pay in cash, why on earth are a company insisting on cash when in a residents' car park acting for a managing agent?

Get angry about this - do not even begin to apologise about 'forgetting' to put up a permit. Check your lease, do you have the right to park in your space, is it an allocated space? Then it's yours. Even if your lease doesn't say much about parking, this amount of money is extortion and you CAN sue for it back.

Get on the phone to the Managing Agent in the morning - do not be hesitant, do not ask what the clamper can and cannot do. Tell them how angry you are and that you want this matter sorted or you will sue - do not waver, be very clear that you are serious. It's worth a try of a massive complaint about them allowing a clamping scammer to seize your car from your space (quote your lease if it supports your right to park there and brush off any rubbish questions or attempts to turn the conversation towards whether you showed a permit). Some people have managed to rattle a Managing Agent's cage enough to get a clamp removed. But in your case as they have seized you car as well I fear you are going to have to pay up front, then sue.

Be assertive and demand to know why clampers are skulking around at 6am on a Sunday when ONLY residents cars are going to be parked there! No-one else is going to have parked there to nip to the shops or pub at that time are they?! And do not let them brush you off saying you can 'appeal' after paying - it's a lie, there is no appeal to a private clamper.

Demand to know why they are slapping on 2 x PCNs and clamping (apparently...how do you know there was ever a clamp applied and released?) and towing away overnight, and then demanding cash only for release? Ask if it's a VAT fraud, otherwise why cash? Question them assertively, make sure you are speaking to the Manager and do try to get them to admit that they allowed the clampers to be there, as you'll need to know who did rubber-stamp the activity even if no money changes hands.

And then, if it's obvious from the phone conversation that it's the Managing Agents who instructed/agreed to the clampers being there, inform them that unless they sort this out and return your car without payment to be made, you will be paying under protest and then suing them (the Managing Agents) and the clampers, jointly. Leave them in absolutely no doubt that you WILL take them to Court and if they say they are not liable tell them to look up the British Waterways clamping case, so they understand that they ARE. It's easily found on Google and is one of several cases where judges have found a company/landowner/agent liable for the actions of a clamper.

Get over to pepipoo now and see how many people are currently suing clampers and whoever instructed them (you must name both parties as you'll never get the money from a clamper even if you win in Court and get a CCJ). Read some current clamping cases there for guidance on what you'll need to do, and then start your own thread. Pepipoo posters will see you through from start to finish of suing and you WILL get some/all of your money back if you set your mind to it and some time for letter-writing, and ultimately lodging a Small Claim in the coming weeks/months:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

And get photos of the signs asap in case they change them (what the signs say is important as well as where the signs are, whether there are lots of signs and whether they are lit at night). Dig out the lease and check it now re parking allocation, if any. If you have to pay up front then try to pay with a card, and keep any receipt you are given (but do not prompt them for it nor for any missing information on it).

kmdk412

Hi Coupon-mad,

Thanks so much for your reply. Really helped to have some reassurance today.

Well all's well that ends well. It turns out they did indeed tow my vehicle unlawfully. My management agency were extremely helpful and sorted everything out for me. It turn's out that the contract expired for the enforcement agency and so they had absolutely no jurisdiction. Whether or not I was parked lawfully or not was not resolved. In the spirit of trying to help out everyone else that have had issues and to try and relieve myself of some of the anger I have I have filed a criminal charge and will follow it up with a civil one too.

The funniest (if you can say that!?) thing about this whole arduous episode is that the agency returned my car to the wrong bay when they brought it back and so were bombarded with calls from my neighbour all day. I've straightened it out with the neighbour, but seriously they clearly don't have two brain cells between them all to rub together.

Just to ensure that as many google searches for these eejits come this way I'll put phone number and name below.

CPS Enforcement (based in Bath)

0871 666 4252

Thanks again,

Cheers Chris :beer:

TrickyWicky

You see this is why you should apply your own clamp to your own car in privately enforced car parks. They can can't pull it up the ramp onto the removal truck without breaking it (criminal damage). It also makes using a hi-ab tricky too if you use the right type of clamp as they can't fit the straps around the wheels

Well done though on finding out their contract was up, you've got the !!!!! right in the corner now for theft of a motor vehicle. Any damage to it?

torontoboy45

kmdk412 wrote: »

Hi Coupon-mad,

Thanks so much for your reply. Really helped to have some reassurance today.

Well all's well that ends well. It turns out they did indeed tow my vehicle unlawfully. My management agency were extremely helpful and sorted everything out for me. It turn's out that the contract expired for the enforcement agency and so they had absolutely no jurisdiction. Whether or not I was parked lawfully or not was not resolved. In the spirit of trying to help out everyone else that have had issues and to try and relieve myself of some of the anger I have I have filed a criminal charge and will follow it up with a civil one too.

The funniest (if you can say that!?) thing about this whole arduous episode is that the agency returned my car to the wrong bay when they brought it back and so were bombarded with calls from my neighbour all day. I've straightened it out with the neighbour, but seriously they clearly don't have two brain cells between them all to rub together.

Just to ensure that as many google searches for these eejits come this way I'll put phone number and name below.

CPS Enforcement (based in Bath)

0871 666 4252

Thanks again,

Cheers Chris :beer:

well done for having the nous to follow this up, instead of just rolling over.

important, though, to see this one through and nail these scumbags -if only to ensure others don't fall victim.

report back here on yr progress; that is an absolute order.

The_Slithy_Tove

kmdk412 wrote: »

It turn's out that the contract expired for the enforcement agency and so they had absolutely no jurisdiction. Whether or not I was parked lawfully or not ...

You still need to make sure of a couple of things, as another bunch of scammers may get appointed by the Management Company to further intimidate the residents. First, as Coupon-Mad said, you must check the lease for your property and see what it says about car parking. If you have a specific, allocated space, and there is no mention in the lease about permits or anything, then the car parking space is yours, and the Management Company has no authority to impose any such scheme on you. Further, any attempt to ticket, clamp or tow your car from its spot (permit or not) infringes your right to Peaceful Enjoyment and would be illegal. Make sure the Management Company understand this, and that no-one has the right to go anywhere near your car.

Your last phrase above that I have quoted needs a mention. You cannot be parked unlawfully on your own land, and even if it's common areas of the development, there's still no "law" stopping you from parking there.

notts_phil

They could just be saying that the clampers contract expired to make you think the is nothing you can do

Sirdan

TrickyWicky wrote: »

You see this is why you should apply your own clamp to your own car in privately enforced car parks. They can can't pull it up the ramp onto the removal truck without breaking it (criminal damage). It also makes using a hi-ab tricky too if you use the right type of clamp as they can't fit the straps around the wheels

Well done though on finding out their contract was up, you've got the !!!!! right in the corner now for theft of a motor vehicle. Any damage to it?

Much as I'd love you to be right sadly this unlawful towing is not by definition theft.

Theft requires the intention to "permanently deprive the owner" of their property.
The CPS (the legal body not the clampers) won't charge unless there is a realistic prospect of conviction and in this case sadly the clampers do have a defence that would in all probabilty succeed.
Simply their defence is that their intention in towing was to secure payment of the tow/release/storage charges as that is their business model.
So not theft more likely a tort of some description.

TrickyWicky

Sirdan wrote: »

Theft requires the intention to "permanently deprive the owner" of their property.

Which they had intended unless the owner coughed up cash. The fact that they were then caught on the hop just forced them to back track but the action was carried out with intent.

I do see what you're saying and also agree with it but I think its one of those grey areas.

Sirdan

TrickyWicky wrote: »

Which they had intended unless the owner coughed up cash. The fact that they were then caught on the hop just forced them to back track but the action was carried out with intent.

I do see what you're saying and also agree with it but I think its one of those grey areas.

I stand to be corrected but I believe clampers are also meant to notify the police that they have the vehicle probably without the owner's knowledge.

The police then record this so that when the owner reports it stolen the police can tell them "no it's not stolen it's towed by a [STRIKE]cowboy[/STRIKE]..oops..clamper ,it is at this location contact this phone number"

As you say it could be considered a grey area but sadly that element of doubt is sufficient that the CPS would not prosecute for theft.

Sirdan

TrickyWicky wrote: »

Which they had intended unless the owner coughed up cash. The fact that they were then caught on the hop just forced them to back track but the action was carried out with intent.

I do see what you're saying and also agree with it but I think its one of those grey areas.

Theft also requires that the "thief" has accquired the property dishonestly.

In this case it would need to be proven that the individuals who actually did the towing knew the contract had expired and towed anyway.....hard to prove beyond all reasonable doubt.
I'm sure they will say they honestly believed they were acting under the existing contract.
The fact that they should have known makes the company and individuals negligent for sure ..but guilty of theft ?? ....almost certainly not ..more's the pity.