Agency paid admin staff in NHS

Mrs_Bogroll

I am currently working in the NHS via an agency but have discovered that my hourly rate is so low it doesn't even register on the NHS's salary scales. I had thought that the point of the temporary workers directive was that temporary staff should not be at a detriment in comparison to permanent staff. What is the truth of this? Am I entitled to be paid in line with the Trust's pay scales for doing identical work as permanent staff? Can anyone point me in the direction of any sources of facts regarding agency workers and fairness please?

I understand that the agency is my employer and when I queried my rate with them they said that the rates for staff they supplied was agreed between the Trust and them at the time of their tender. So in essence the Trust agreed that agency workers would be paid less than permanent staff. However the Trust's HR woman told me that my rate was nothing to do with the Trust, and referred me back to the agency....and so the circle of blame/responsibility was created...

Thanks.

scheming_gypsy

your rate isn't anything to do with the trust as you're employed by the agency.
With the temporary workers jobby, you need to be working there for twelve weeks after it came into effect on October 1st before you get the same rights as permanent staff (i believe)

LittleVoice

Mrs_Bogroll wrote: »

I am currently working in the NHS via an agency but have discovered that my hourly rate is so low it doesn't even register on the NHS's salary scales. I had thought that the point of the temporary workers directive was that temporary staff should not be at a detriment in comparison to permanent staff. What is the truth of this? Am I entitled to be paid in line with the Trust's pay scales for doing identical work as permanent staff? Can anyone point me in the direction of any sources of facts regarding agency workers and fairness please?

I understand that the agency is my employer and when I queried my rate with them they said that the rates for staff they supplied was agreed between the Trust and them at the time of their tender. So in essence the Trust agreed that agency workers would be paid less than permanent staff. However the Trust's HR woman told me that my rate was nothing to do with the Trust, and referred me back to the agency....and so the circle of blame/responsibility was created...

Thanks.

1 Although the Agency Workers regulations are in force (from 1 October this year), the equal pay aspect doesn't kick in until 12 weeks from commencement of the placement, and that can't be earlier than 1 October this year as far as the regs are concerned. So that doesn't help you right now.

2 The Trust should have advised the agency of what level of employee they wanted.

3 If this is an agency which has a nationally negotiated contract (eg isn't a two-branch agency that just happens to have a suitable person to fill a vacancy which the Trust couldn't fill from one of the preferred suppliers), then they should be paying the temp according to the Buying Solutions schedule of hourly rates for temps at various spinal points of the pay bands.

4 This doesn't, AFAIK, take account of the higher cost areas (eg working in Central London).

5 What work are you doing and what is the equivalent permanent employee AfC band?

6 To get detail on the Agency Workers regulations, try Google.

Mrs_Bogroll

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

your rate isn't anything to do with the trust as you're employed by the agency.
With the temporary workers jobby, you need to be working there for twelve weeks after it came into effect on October 1st before you get the same rights as permanent staff (i believe)

That's not 100% true as the agency and the Trust agreed rates when the agency was awarded the contract to supply staff, therefore they do have something to do with it. My contract with the agency also states my job title and includes reference to the salary band (which was then ignored when it came to handing out the spondoolies).

Mrs_Bogroll

LittleVoice wrote: »

1 Although the Agency Workers regulations are in force (from 1 October this year), the equal pay aspect doesn't kick in until 12 weeks from commencement of the placement, and that can't be earlier than 1 October this year as far as the regs are concerned. So that doesn't help you right now. OK, if that's the rule!

2 The Trust should have advised the agency of what level of employee they wanted. The agency indicated band 3 in the paperwork they gave me, so that's been done.

3 If this is an agency which has a nationally negotiated contract (eg isn't a two-branch agency that just happens to have a suitable person to fill a vacancy which the Trust couldn't fill from one of the preferred suppliers), then they should be paying the temp according to the Buying Solutions schedule of hourly rates for temps at various spinal points of the pay bands. AFAIK the agency has a nationally negotiated contract. Am I entitled to see the Buying Solutions schedule of hourly rates for temps thingy?? I ask this because the woman from the agency told me that all temps they supply are paid a flat rate regardless of pay band!

4 This doesn't, AFAIK, take account of the higher cost areas (eg working in Central London). I believe we are in a lower cost area.

5 What work are you doing and what is the equivalent permanent employee AfC band? Not sure what AfC means, but I am in a Band 3 job. My pay works out at £12675 pa, the entry point to Band 3 is £15853. NB my pay is less than the entry point to Grade 1, so you can see why I am annoyed!

6 To get detail on the Agency Workers regulations, try Google. Thank you, I will do that....I asked here about my specific issue since I thought that other people in a similar predicament may have asked about it previously

Please see my replies in lilac.

And thank you for your reply, you have been very helpful already!

scheming_gypsy

Mrs_Bogroll wrote: »

That's not 100% true as the agency and the Trust agreed rates when the agency was awarded the contract to supply staff, therefore they do have something to do with it.

To clarify what I meant.....

There are two contracts, a contract between you and the agency and a contract between the agency and the trust. You don't work 'for' the trust, you work for the agency.
The rates that are agreed are usually what the trust pays the agency; so as you're employed by the agency any complaints regarding money, have to go via them and not the trust.

My contract with the agency also states my job title and includes reference to the salary band (which was then ignored when it came to handing out the spondoolies).

but you didn't mention that bit originally

Mrs_Bogroll

Yeah, you're right Scheming_gypsy, and I do understand there is always going to be a difference between what I get paid per hour and what the Trust gets invoiced for the hours I work. Their mention of the salary band didn't include actual figures, but simply named the salary band I'd be in. I didn't get to see the figures until I started working there.

It's interesting what LittleVoice mentions then they should be paying the temp according to the Buying Solutions schedule of hourly rates for temps at various spinal points of the pay bands and I would dearly love to see the Buying Solutions schedule and if it actually defines what temps get, or if it just defines what the invoice rates are. Fat chance of me ever seeing it I know...

It looks like I need to wait until I've done 12 weeks before I have any hope of getting a rate similar to that paid to permanent colleagues doing the exact same work.

scheming_gypsy

maybe they have their own salary banding to match to the trusts? so if the trust pay perm staff £15,000 on a band A, the agency pay £12,000... ?

MrsManda

Mrs_Bogroll wrote: »

It's interesting what LittleVoice mentions then they should be paying the temp according to the Buying Solutions schedule of hourly rates for temps at various spinal points of the pay bands and I would dearly love to see the Buying Solutions schedule and if it actually defines what temps get, or if it just defines what the invoice rates are. Fat chance of me ever seeing it I know...

If Buying Solutions was used then you can read the standard pay rates and details of how pricing works on he Buying Solutions website
https://www.buyingsolutions.gov.uk/services/ResourcingServices/resourcingsolutionshealth/nonmedicalnonclinical/

planning303

the Agency worker regs that came into force on the 1st of october mean that you (agencyworker) will recieve the same wages as someone who is working in a comparative role after 12 weeks of continuing employment.

this continuing employment means that regardless of whether you work 5day a week for 12 weeks or as little as 1 day a week for 12 weeks, and you can have a break of something like up to 5 weeks inbetween all of the weeks.

By comparative role it needs to be effectively the same job just without a perm contract. Employers are being watched to ensure that they don't use tactics to prevent them needing to pay the money.

But one way of avoidence is to create a lower grade that didn't previously exist prior to the AWR and to ensure that full timers are on this for their first 6 months or something. Providing there are some subtle differences in the job spec, usually to do with quality control or working alone or something.

to be fair though it's all very early stages at the moment and to my knowledge there have been no test cases yet to refer to

by the way from day one there are certain things that you are entitled to.. for example site stuff like lockers and anyother amenity based things that full timers recieve

planning303

Mrs_Bogroll wrote: »

It looks like I need to wait until I've done 12 weeks before I have any hope of getting a rate similar to that paid to permanent colleagues doing the exact same work.

If i was you i would get copies of yours and your collegues job specs and start building your evidence that you have been consistently working in a comparitive role rather than waiting untill the 12th week