Pension sharing on divorce advice needed.

jamesd

You need a better solicitor then - it's vital that you get good advice on this.

A CETV value calculation is likely to be punitive for you. It will probably under-value the pension benefits being transferred to your ex. It's strongly in her interest to get as much pension as possible out of you, sacrificing cash in hand now to do it.

It's almost certainly strongly in your interest to avoid anything that takes money from your pension, just as it is in hers to do the opposite.

The huge issues for CETV for you include rising life expectancy which means that the real value will be higher than given by the CETV calculation.

If you do do any pension splitting then it is correct to have her portion put in her name so that she may get it if you die before pension age. Don't resist doing this part for any pension that is split, it's the correct solution that decouples her from you cleanly.

Isn't there any property that you could mortgage to pay her cash instead? Personal loan?

For pension values, any chance of getting a CETV calculation from before marriage and another from split time then offer her half of the change - that was presumably from your relationship? Then you'd have a clear demonstration of the value added during marriage to work with.

Aegis

jamesd wrote: »

You need a better solicitor then - it's vital that you get good advice on this.

A CETV value calculation is likely to be punitive for you. It will probably under-value the pension benefits being transferred to your ex.

From what I've gathered, this is common but technically illegal. In the case of divorce the scheme must either pay out the full CETV at the rates needed to provide the benefit, or they must allow the other person to become a shadow member of the scheme and acquire defined benefits in their own right.

It's worth asking the solicitor about this, it specifically appears in some fairly recent case law (can't remember which case though!).

jamesd

The trouble is the way that the CETV is calculated and the flaws in that calculation at a time of rising life expectancies. Those mean that the true value is under-valued because you'll really live longer than assumed in the calculation. So say you have a house value to split, the better deal is to take half the house value in pension CETV than in house value because the CETV will be worth more in pension payouts in reality than the CETV says.

This is probably why the ex's solicitor is advising seeking all possible money in pension form.

I've read some of the recent cases as well, it's interesting reading.

Agree about becoming shadow members, that's the way to go if there is any pension splitting. It just makes sense because it's a cleaner split.

atush

GunJack wrote: »

this was one of the sickest rules ever introduced, splitting a pension like this....the ex should be penalised for NOT contributing if she's been working herself. Why should the contributing person suffer ???

Oh come off it!

There are loads of reasons the ex might not have paid in such as no work pension plan where they worked, to taking time off to have children etc.

And any pension turned over/split will come out of their half of the family assets. So the spouse that earned the pension should not lose out.

bigmondy

Thanks for the advice guys, - the court case is next Friday?

EDIT: The CETV IS for the period of the marriage (I am an idiot). Sorry!

My solicitor is talking in terms of me doing all the talking at the proof and I am dreading it. All this is way over my head and scary stuff. The advice above for getting a "better solicitor" is bang on the money - I know this guy is overcharging me and doing very little for it - but I have left it too late now.

What are the likley interest rates they will apply to the CETV that was dated 5 years ago?

xylophone

Looking at the LGPS advice to the partner being awarded the pension share, (see above) the assumption seems to be that your ex-wife should have been provided with the value of the pension benefits awarded by your Scheme Administrator at the point [/B]of dissolution of the marriage.

This would seem to imply that the CETV value should be that at the date of decree nisi? You talk of interest being paid but are you sure that this is payable?

I think it would be a good idea for you to read through the booklet referred to in my first post ( you need to find out whether it has been updated) and also to arrange a meeting (urgently!) with your administrator.

Incidentally, I had a quick look and I notice there is some information about AVCs.

jamesd

I doubt that a CETV at date of marriage can be produced that quickly, but it's worth trying. There would also presumably be a need to discuss terms based on the information. Not a lot of chance of doing that within a week.

bigmondy

xylophone wrote: »

This would seem to imply that the CETV value should be that at the date of decree nisi? You talk of interest being paid but are you sure that this is payable?
.

I really appreciate you taking the time to advise me so much xylophone, I was merely panicking about having to pay interest on that - I am hopefully worrying about nothing and you are correct.

xylophone wrote: »

I think it would be a good idea for you to read through the booklet referred to in my first post ( you need to find out whether it has been updated) and also to arrange a meeting (urgently!) with your administrator.

I will do this tomorrow first thing. I wish I could repeatedly thank your posts.

I know JamesD - it is late. I am typing a letter as we speak for my solicitor to send to the other side - I dread the thought of this going to proof. The costs for one day I have been told are around £5k and my solicitor reckons there are 2 days worth of disputes going on (other assets not owned by me) - the galling thing is that these other assets dont amount to more than around £8k. She will force us to jointly pay £10k costs to try and screw a further £8k out of me. So frustrating since I am the innocent party (I know - if i read that I would think ' yeah yeah heard it all before' - but sadly it is true) - my solicitor says she has not got much chance of getting it either - but I have assured him - she will take this all the way through the court. That is just what she does - goes for the jugular.

atush

Well i guess you should have known that when you married her (or maybe that was why?). You chose her after all.

Perhaps, knowing the costs you could have attempted a settlement. Or perhaps, after the settlement is eaten up by costs you can copy the email/txt where she declined to do so and it cost her dear? It could give you emotional if not financial satisfaction.

bigmondy

Heh heh. Points taken atush. Everything has been going through the solicitors - she refuses to communicate with me. Its not to late to attempt a settlement though is it?

PS: Guys going to amend my post abobe - the CETV IS for the period of the marriage - sorry - I am learning that I have not been thourough enough in reading all this (living with my head in the sand) hoping it would all go away (especially the ex).

Going to ask the administrator tomorrow:

"Would I not have to pay more than the original CETV for the apportionment of the marriage if it was a shadow pension?"
"Which is best a pension share - split or shadow (never heard of that before)"